What are IYO the heaviest-sounding PAF-types?

[Rex_Rocker]

So... officially back into PAF's for high-gain, LOL.

I think the clarity and dynamics thing is a way overblown, especiall after you raise the gaine for them not to sound super dry, and I realize there are still benefits from using high-output pickups. The problem I usually have with PAF's is I usually have to raise the gain, and that leads to higher noise levels at the amp.

But what I do like is they seem to have a very open and airy top-end and an almost twangy attack without going all scratchy and squelchy as full-on single coils. I love me some sizzle to my tone, and I've always struggled to get that out of 99% of the high-end monsters. They're also normally scooped around the low-mids, which I always struggle with dialing out with many high-output monsters.

What I'm pretty sure I do not like, however, is unpotted coils, degaussed magnets, or heavily underwound iterations.

Right now, I'm using Fishman Fluence Classics, and I love them in my Les Paul Tribute.

I have in the past also liked the Duncan '59B, Gibson Burstbucker Pro, and the DiMarzio PAF Pro. I know the PAF Pro is not really a PAF-type, but it does have the open, airy, twangy vibe in the bridge position.

I've also had the WLH, and while I do like it, I wasn't as in love with it as I was with the '59B. I also tried the Slash, and I thought it was... odd. Not what I was expecting. I was hoping it would be fat and loud, but it wasn't. It was actually kinda thin (compared to the '59B and WLH).

What other PAF's do you like for Metal? I mean heavier kinds of newer metal. Not an Alternative, Hair, or Nu Metal here, but not Drop Z djent either.

 

[Securb]

I used my WLHs with my post-hardcore band, and we were VERY heavy. They have lots of grind and thump if you dial them in right.

 

[beaubrummels]

Bare Knuckle Black Dog for me, but it's in the ball park of WLH. Hits the sweet spot better for me than WLH did. I agree with Slash being odd and not what I thought it would be, but for me it was tight and solid, just lacking in character. If a Slash was thin for you, most PAFs I've played would be similar. If the 59B hit the spot, sounds like you need some thumpy girth type PAFs. If you like Burstbuckers, have you tried Seths or Antiquities? Brobucker bridge might be a good one for you, maybe.

I don't play metal that often, however, and when I do, I use hotter pickups. (Distortion, 500T, Black Winter, Custom...)

 

[Mincer]

If you like a lot of preamp gain, you won't find a lot of difference in the feel and response of something like a 59 and a Hybrid. The EQ will be different with PAF-types, but the pickups will respond about the same above a certain gain level. So I say, pick the EQ range your guitar needs.

 

[Ascension]

I like the Kiesel Beryllium A 2 around 9 K a LOT for thick heavy modern tones through my rigs. I also like the old Virtual Hot PAF and Liguifier Dimarzio plus the Duncan 78 and the Kiesel Greg Howe.
I prefer medium output pickups with a good high gain amp to really hot pickups any day for the touch sensitivity they have. Overly compressed high out put pickups to me lack dynamics and just sterilize everything. I prefer to let the amp do the work for high gain not the pickup.

 

[Ascension]

If you like a lot of preamp gain, you won't find a lot of difference in the feel and response of something like a 59 and a Hybrid. The EQ will be different with PAF-types, but the pickups will respond about the same above a certain gain level. So I say, pick the EQ range your guitar needs.

Depends on the amp. For the most part this is true but there are some exceptions. High gain amps like my PRS Archon the 5150's Soldano SLO and others are very dynamic and touch sensitive and with those rigs you will really hear the difference in a Hybrid vs a 59. I do agree however with you that most really high gain amps with all of the compression you won't hear the difference because of how it sterilizes the tone but not all.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't really care much for touch sensitivity myself. However, I am a hard-picker, and I do find PAF's tend to bring out that agression and brightness out that banging on the string causes a tiny bit more. Maybe because they're bright and twangy already in themselves.

But you're right. They are an EQ thing for me. I particularly like the broad an open high-end and the scooped lower-mid content for the bridge position. And I think A5 normally tends to bring that out more in them.

I'm thinking about dropping a set of PAF Pros in my Epiphone to compliment the Fishmans in my Gibson. But maybe there is something more interesting and with more mojo around.

I did use to have a WLH-B that I did like, but I didn't think it was as sizzly and open as the '59B. It was nice, though.

I'd love to try the DiMarzio PAF 36th Anni Bridge and the Fortitude. But I'm not in love with the idea of the Airbucker and the Virtual Vintage thing. I want the full-on A5 benefits for myself! I wouldn't want to water it down.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Bare Knuckle Black Dog for me, but it's in the ball park of WLH. Hits the sweet spot better for me than WLH did. I agree with Slash being odd and not what I thought it would be, but for me it was tight and solid, just lacking in character. If a Slash was thin for you, most PAFs I've played would be similar. If the 59B hit the spot, sounds like you need some thumpy girth type PAFs. If you like Burstbuckers, have you tried Seths or Antiquities? Brobucker bridge might be a good one for you, maybe.

I don't play metal that often, however, and when I do, I use hotter pickups. (Distortion, 500T, Black Winter, Custom...)

The Burstbucker that I like was the Lead Pro, TBH. My Epi came stock with the 3/2 (A2), and I thought those were kinda weak and thin.

I have a slight aversion towards A2 for bridge pickups, TBH, based on my experience with the Burstbucker 3, Slash, and 490T. I love what A2 does for neck pickups to make them smooth but not muddy... but I want my bridge pickup to be bright, brash, and bold... and STRONG. But I have not really tried a PG-B thoroughly or a '78 at all. Those might change my mind.

Seths or Ants sound nice on paper, but I'm not sure I can live with the unpotted nature.

Oh, and believe me, I have my phases, LOL. I still have the 500T, Black Winter, and my Fishman Moderns and KSE's around in case I ever change my mind, LOL.

 

[Demanic]

Well, the Fuglies are ~8k. Does that qualify them as PAF wind?View attachment AJFCJaUjdasHfQInxT4qlZjQHZ54rWSZ-FdRyZd5VDS-eknoZvWCAZja2BStcTVurrRHqs16k2Rt3C2aQifGmTxim15sLTWACd-c

 

[Coryd]

For me I dig the 59/custom hybrid and the Custom. I haven’t tried that many though, but these I do love! I think I may try a Custom again some day. I’ve always been curious about the PAF Pro as well.

 

[Seashore]

I usually feel more at home with asymmetrically wound pickups. It's not something I ever shopped for, but when I had a peek at specs for my favorites vs the ones that didn't fit the bill, the asymmetrical winds popped out. It's mostly a pick attack thing; I've gotten used to pickups that reward digging in with a gutsier attack. I wound up fighting with Fishmans (and several Duncans) that just felt a little flat through my amp and never got me where I wanted to be - I was always adjusting and couldn't settle into just playing the thing. I would really like to try a 59/Custom at some point.

My favorite A5 bridge pickup for metal stuff, in standard tuning, in a darker/warmer guitar, is not a PAF - Bare Knuckle Rebel Yell. It's at the higher end of medium-hot, but it doesn't lack for high end or detail, and it's got some of that alnico squish without feeling flattened out. Fantastic in a live band mix. It gets too bright in a snappy guitar, but in thick Explorers and LPs it can be magic.

For lower tunings in the same kind of guitar I f'n love another Bare Knuckle, the Cold Sweat. Similar output, somewhat similar overall tone, ceramic, detailed but super crunchy. It can get brittle but doesn't have to be. It's in one of my Epiphone LPs right now and it actually makes me want to play that guitar again.

Having said all that, sometimes the answer really is just a JB, it's a classic for a reason. I can't imagine a better match in my newest Paul, certainly not an improvement worth spending a couple hundo.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I'm not sure I want to get into mid-output pickups. I kinda want to commit to PAF's for now. I find the mid-output stuff has neither the openness of PAF-types nor the focus of the high-output monsters.

I do love me the JB, but compared to PAF's, it's a bit too smooth and kinda sorta dark. Maybe not "dark", because it's got the nice cutting upper mids, but certainly not airy/sizzly/open either.

 

[beaubrummels]

I did use to have a WLH-B that I did like, but I didn't think it was as sizzly and open as the '59B. It was nice, though.

That makes me think you had a Rough Cast A5 version. Perhaps a polished A5 would bring in the sizzle and open-ness?

The magnet doesn't make all the sound, however. All A2 pickups do not sound alike or have the same character. For example, the '78 Model is bright and tight - it sounds like a Pearly Gates with the bottom end rolled off. Likewise, the Pearly Gates set (A2) is similarly bright and even to a Jazz set (A5). I've done mix and match with Pearly bridge/neck with Jazz bridge/neck and all combinations work really well together.

I used a 36th PAF neck and it sounded slightly murky/unclear compared to a Duncan Jazz or Pearly neck. Had the right EQ to it, but Duncan versions of PAF types have always been clearer to me.

Reading the whole thread, I'd be inclined to recommend a Jazz bridge (A5) with a Pearly Gates neck (A2), or perhaps find an old Pearly Gates+ trembucker bridge (A5) out of a Fender Lonestar/Big Apple strat (can't remember which guitar they came in). Even a Jazz set would be good, or a Jazz bridge (A5) with an A2P neck (A2).

Also, A4 does a lot to level out pickups. A 59/RCA5 bridge with a 59/A4 neck is a stellar PAF combo.

 

[Seashore]

I find the mid-output stuff has neither the openness of PAF-types nor the focus of the high-output monsters.

I dunno man. I think you'd be impressed by the Rebel Yell if you got a chance to try one in your guitar. They list the bridge at 14.4 kOhms, so maybe a bit more than medium. People on their forum will compare it to the original spec JB, which I haven't played. And of course it depends on what you're playing it into. My amp likes a high-mid push, so much that I've dialed one in with a parametric EQ to make up for pickups I found lacking. For whatever it's worth, the RY sounds like it pushes my amp more than some theoretically "hotter" pickups, although I haven't measured it it besides with my ears and what I do with the gain knob.

Resale value isn't too bad either. Just sayin'.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

That makes me think you had a Rough Cast A5 version. Perhaps a polished A5 would bring in the sizzle and open-ness?

The magnet doesn't make all the sound, however. All A2 pickups do not sound alike or have the same character. For example, the '78 Model is bright and tight - it sounds like a Pearly Gates with the bottom end rolled off. Likewise, the Pearly Gates set (A2) is similarly bright and even to a Jazz set (A5). I've done mix and match with Pearly bridge/neck with Jazz bridge/neck and all combinations work really well together.

I used a 36th PAF neck and it sounded slightly murky/unclear compared to a Duncan Jazz or Pearly neck. Had the right EQ to it, but Duncan versions of PAF types have always been clearer to me.

Reading the whole thread, I'd be inclined to recommend a Jazz bridge (A5) with a Pearly Gates neck (A2), or perhaps find an old Pearly Gates+ trembucker bridge (A5) out of a Fender Lonestar/Big Apple strat (can't remember which guitar they came in). Even a Jazz set would be good, or a Jazz bridge (A5) with an A2P neck (A2).

Also, A4 does a lot to level out pickups. A 59/RCA5 bridge with a 59/A4 neck is a stellar PAF combo.

I LOVED the tone of the PAF 36th Anni (neck) matched with the '59 Trembucker in my old Ibanez RGA. It was fat and smooth, but not muddy.

However, the one thint that I would change about it is it was WAY low-output. Like unnecessarily so. It struggled to keep up with the '59B even. That's why I have the preconception about the airbucker thing.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

+1 on the Brobucker, one of my all-time favorites. An epic vintage-plus bridge hum: it has both juice and chime.

Another +1 on the Rebel Yell bridge; it's medium output but bright and less compressed than the DCR might suggest.
Pretty aggressive on character yet it can feel vintage if you treat it gently, and there's.horsepower on tap when you want it.
(FWIW, I think the Rebel Yell neck is a gem, too.)

Zhangbuckers are great; and his vintage-hot PAFs still feel like PAFs, though fuller. I have a handful of David's winds.
The pure handwound 9.25K / A2 Brownbucker and pure handwound 9.5K / A4 Duanebucker are both stellar.
His handwound versions have coils that are actually hand-wrapped onto a stationary bobbin, not simply hand-fed onto a rotating one.

The Wizz GregBilly bridge is pretty special too. 9.75K wind, but with a lot of coil offset.
It punches, cuts & sings, and it cleans up beautifully. A more muscular iteration of the classic Tele-on-steroids PAF character.

 

[Supernautilus]

That makes me think you had a Rough Cast A5 version. Perhaps a polished A5 would bring in the sizzle and open-ness?

The magnet doesn't make all the sound, however. All A2 pickups do not sound alike or have the same character. For example, the '78 Model is bright and tight - it sounds like a Pearly Gates with the bottom end rolled off. Likewise, the Pearly Gates set (A2) is similarly bright and even to a Jazz set (A5). I've done mix and match with Pearly bridge/neck with Jazz bridge/neck and all combinations work really well together.

I used a 36th PAF neck and it sounded slightly murky/unclear compared to a Duncan Jazz or Pearly neck. Had the right EQ to it, but Duncan versions of PAF types have always been clearer to me.

Reading the whole thread, I'd be inclined to recommend a Jazz bridge (A5) with a Pearly Gates neck (A2), or perhaps find an old Pearly Gates+ trembucker bridge (A5) out of a Fender Lonestar/Big Apple strat (can't remember which guitar they came in). Even a Jazz set would be good, or a Jazz bridge (A5) with an A2P neck (A2).

Also, A4 does a lot to level out pickups. A 59/RCA5 bridge with a 59/A4 neck is a stellar PAF combo.

+1 for WLH with polished A5. I just recently did an experiment with this which I talked about in my S18 thread. I replaced the RCA5 mag that came stock. I was immediately impressed. A bit more scoop and sizzle, just what I wanted. And while I’ve only heard a neck model with polished A5, I can only imagine a bridge model would sound just as good.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

I've never heard a pickup that's actually PAF-like that I love for metal. I do love the '59 bridge, but it's not really that PAF-like. Real PAFs tend to be obnoxiously bright in the bridge position, not what I'm into in the slightest, but there's definitely twang.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the airbucker thing. I have an Air Classic in the neck of my PRS, and the Air Zone and Air Norton are both killer pickups, too. It just reduces the output a bit. Speaking of, if you haven't tried the Norton, you should.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I've never heard a pickup that's actually PAF-like that I love for metal. I do love the '59 bridge, but it's not really that PAF-like. Real PAFs tend to be obnoxiously bright in the bridge position, not what I'm into in the slightest, but there's definitely twang.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the airbucker thing. I have an Air Classic in the neck of my PRS, and the Air Zone and Air Norton are both killer pickups, too. It just reduces the output a bit. Speaking of, if you haven't tried the Norton, you should.

Well, the one time I had a '59B, I was forced to run it through a 250K pot, LOL. But it still sounded nice.

I've never tried a "real" PAF myself, so I wouldn't know how authentic the '59 is. It's also been at least 8 years since I had it. And now the Fishies are really bright indeed, but that is remedied by the HF Tilt.

The PAF Pro is also obnoxiously bright but in a good way. I think it's one of the only pickups that I can think of that comes with an oversized A5 magnet.

I kinda like bright pickups overall as long as they're not squelchy in the attack like a single coil.

The one thing about the Fishies is they're not as low output as a "real" pickup. I bet the PAF voicing is perhaps just a tiny bit less hot than a Custom 5. But the EQ is much more open and airy than a Custom 5. More like a '59.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Well, the one time I had a '59B, I was forced to run it through a 250K pot, LOL. But it still sounded nice.

I've never tried a "real" PAF myself, so I wouldn't know how authentic the '59 is. It's also been at least 8 years since I had it. And now the Fishies are really bright indeed, but that is remedied by the HF Tilt.

The PAF Pro is also obnoxiously bright but in a good way. I think it's one of the only pickups that I can think of that comes with an oversized A5 magnet.

I kinda like bright pickups overall as long as they're not squelchy in the attack like a single coil.

The one thing about the Fishies is they're not as low output as a "real" pickup. I bet the PAF voicing is perhaps just a tiny bit less hot than a Custom 5. But the EQ is much more open and airy than a Custom 5. More like a '59.

I’m super impressed with the Fishman Strat pickups, so I will be giving the Classics a shot.

Strangely enough, I love a single coil with the tone rolled off slightly for metal. It loses the squelch, but keeps the really focused attack.