What are the symptoms of a slight fretboard radius mismatch?

[Inflames626]

So on my retrofitted 90s-00s MIJ Jacksons I usually use this Schaller bridge because it fits the route better than an OFR.

https://schaller.info/en/tremolos/359/schaller-tremolo

Jackson fretboards are 12-16" usually with an R2-R3 nut. The Schaller is 10-16". This is used with an R8 Floyd nut whenever the import nut needs replacing. R8 matches the .225" import nut shelf. I didn't want to use an R2-R3 nut on an R8 shelf and have action that was too high.

I've noticed the interior strings seem a bit off--as if they are slightly higher, whereas the outer strings are slightly lower. I'm guessing this is because the Schaller bridge starts at 10" and is more rounded whereas the Jackson starts at 12" and is flatter.

In short, the fretboard is too flat low on the neck while the bridge is more rounded down low to make barre chords easier. This makes the strings feel slightly mismatched in terms of height and as if they are slightly rounded over the flat fretboard.

It isn't a big issue, but there's nothing I can do about it. I've heard of shimming saddles but I haven't heard of a way to correct things if the interior saddles are too high. I suppose I could shim the outer strings slightly to match, but the lower outer strings don't really bother me. I just feel the difference enough to notice.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, all.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think you can get little metal shims to fit under the saddles to fix that.

If not, I've heard people also cut shims from soda cans to fix that.

 

[Inflames626]

I think you can get little metal shims to fit under the saddles to fix that.

If not, I've heard people also cut shims from soda cans to fix that.

I'm more interested in bringing the center strings down than the outer edges up. I think if the bridge were 12-16" it wouldn't be an issue.

Using an OFR leaves an unsightly gap on the side of the route. I only use them if the finish is a color Schaller doesn't offer or if the Jackson came with a FR branded bridge.

Plus the Schallers have replaceable knife edges and the OFRs don't.

Never tried Gotoh. I always thought they were more of an Ibanez Edge style.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

You can also sand down the center saddles. It's going to take some time, though, since those are metal.

But if you shim the saddles on the edges up, it's kinda the same. It's all relative. The saddles towards the center would be lower relatively speaking. However, you would have to adjust all the height of the bridge accordingly to compensante.

I heard the Gotoh is cool. It looks Edge-y, but it's made of the same materials as a Floyd: Steel and brass, rather than Zinc like an Edge.

 

[Inflames626]

Ibby told me some years ago their Original Edge bridges were $300 direct from them, and they seem hard to find used. I didn't feel they were worth it.

Plus based on this video I used to watch back in the day the flutter seemed less on Kahlers and Edges than OFRs. Yes, I know the intro sounds like an SNES game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGcY6T4xHc

I would like the inner strings to have action as low as the outer, but it also kind of helps you know what strings you are on when the edge strings are a little lower action than the center strings.

I bought a Schaller Ruthenium bridge with a 42mm block I think for an LTD F type I have in Bb with 13s on it. I thought it would help the tone but I don't notice a huge difference. The body is shallow so I have to leave the backplate off so the sustain block has room to move. I don't really get caught up in what metal a bridge is as long as it stays in tune and flutters.

Prior to the Floyd Rose patent expiring in 2003 the state of licensed bridges was all over the place. Thankfully now instead of using licensed bridges branded with the guitar name they use Floyd Rose Specials.

The Specials are junk but at least the measurements line up with an OFR save the saddle screw length. These are marginally shorter on the Specials than the OFRs I think, again matching the Schaller by being shorter front to back.

Additionally, the licensed bridges on my Jacksons had clamp screws in front of the tailpiece, like a Floyd Rose Pro, so long screws didn't stick out the back. It's a design Floyd should use on their main bridges, IMO, because it makes a smaller footprint. But the Pro was discontinued.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think the best parts about the Edge are a. They're made by Gotoh, so you can expect great quality and b. They were some of the first to incorporate the replacebale knife edge design. They're also pretty and sleek-looking and feeling. However, they do use a lot of pot metal in them, so that's the downside.

They're great if you have an Ibanez that already has it. Not worth 300 dollars for retrofitting one in another guitar that doesn't have it, TBH.

I did actually replace the worn/broken Ibanez Edge on my old RG570 with the Schaller trem that you use, and I noticed a dramatic decrease in stability. However, I did have someone make the swap for me, so I don't know how much he was the one to blame or the trem itself, so I won't go on and talk shit about their trem either.

Honestly, I don't love Schaller hardware in general, but that has just been my personal experience. I've had bad luck in like 75% of the Schaller stuff that I've gotten where the finish flakes off, LOL.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

This used to be it.​

 

[Inflames626]

I thought the Edge Original was all hardened steel and it was the other versions like the Zero that works on a cam that have cheaper parts.

I'd have to see the Ibby Jemsite for bridge retrofit charts. But I'm not an Ibby guy like I'm a Jackson guy at JCFOnline, so I don't know off the top of my head.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I thought the Edge Original was all hardened steel and it was the other versions like the Zero that works on a cam that have cheaper parts.

I'd have to see the Ibby Jemsite for bridge retrofit charts. But I'm not an Ibby guy like I'm a Jackson guy at JCFOnline, so I don't know off the top of my head.

I think it was just the knife edges that were steel. Mine broke in one of the corners that held the knife edges, that's why I had to replace it. It was certainly not steel there.

Mine was the original Edge, not the Pro or Lo Pro or whatever. Of course, mine was from 1998, not from the 80's, so don't know if they changed the material somewhere along the line?

 

[Inflames626]

Depends on how much it is used, also. Because I have 50 or so guitars and play each one of them a small amount, I never wear one down enough to really need to replace the hardware. It's just a desire not to dump guitars I bought in the 90s (before I knew what sacrifices were made for mid priced models) for more expensive new ones.

At GIT I knew a guy with a Dean Washburn Dime model back in 2000 (the blue lightning one I think) who had already worn the frets down and he had maybe played it five years? But this was hours a day. He practiced a lot and so was very good.

 

[marcello252]

If not, I've heard people also cut shims from soda cans to fix that.

I did it on a mustang bridge I put in my Jazzmaster (since the original bridge with screw had threads worn out, and the mustang one had vintage radius), it worked

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Depends on how much it is used, also. Because I have 50 or so guitars and play each one of them a small amount, I never wear one down enough to really need to replace the hardware. It's just a desire not to dump guitars I bought in the 90s (before I knew what sacrifices were made for mid priced models) for more expensive new ones.

At GIT I knew a guy with a Dean Washburn Dime model back in 2000 (the blue lightning one I think) who had already worn the frets down and he had maybe played it five years? But this was hours a day. He practiced a lot and so was very good.

Oh, even nickel frets come in various degrees of quality (or hardness) too. My Gibson's frets are holding up together much better than my Epis were even if I use the Gibson like 10 times as much.

I assume that if the guy took practicing so seriously, he would be using a higher-end Washburn, though, with good frets.

EVH did join in the stainless steel fret hype towards the end too.

 

[Inflames626]

Oh, even nickel frets come in various degrees of quality (or hardness) too. My Gibson's frets are holding up together much better than my Epis were even if I use the Gibson like 10 times as much.

I assume that if the guy took practicing so seriously, he would be using a higher-end Washburn, though, with good frets.

EVH did join in the stainless steel fret hype towards the end too.

Looked like whatever was the expensive signature model at the time was to me. I'm guessing a $2000 (2000 dollars) axe.

This was before the market was flooded with cheap Dime guitars after his death.

I appreciated it for being the original lightning one.

 

[dave74]

A. They sell saddle shims for cheap and they already have the hole for the screw to pass through.

B. You do not need to shave the center saddles. When you shim the outermost saddles you will then be able to lower the whole bridge, thereby lowering the centers.

C. IMO just use 2 of the .2mm saddles under the outermost, and a single .2mm shim under the 5th and 2nd string if you find it "better" feeling like that.

 

[Inflames626]

A. They sell saddle shims for cheap and they already have the hole for the screw to pass through.

B. You do not need to shave the center saddles. When you shim the outermost saddles you will then be able to lower the whole bridge, thereby lowering the centers.

C. IMO just use 2 of the .2mm saddles under the outermost, and a single .2mm shim under the 5th and 2nd string if you find it "better" feeling like that.

Thanks dave74. I wasn't sure I was making sense. But yeah I think the Schaller is slightly too curved (2") for the Jackson on the lower end of the fretboard.

 

[Inflames626]

Also, seems like a lot of trial and error work (I've never shimmed a saddle before and I'd probably lose track of which saddles went where). I'd have to adjust the action and reintonate and such as well. I'm guessing the truss rod would be okay.

Yeah basically the A, D, and G strings feel like they stick up a little.

 

[Inflames626]

On the bright side my barre chording should be slightly easier with the interior strings raised. Usually my D and G strings are muted if a fretboard is really flat.

 

[dave74]

I've shimmed a few that had come with 16" radius frets and a stock OFR (german) bridge.

The german OFR would come with a factory shim under the middle four saddles, which would give it a 10" radius.

By just pulling the stock shim out you go to a 12", and with a pair of .2mm under the outers and a single under 5th you go to about 14".

That is the feel I prefer (14" bridge for 16" frets). I use 12" bridges for 14" necks too.
The thing is I also have the bass side of the bridge just a hair higher than the treble side, so the action ends-up being graduated, so the action is lowest for the first string, and gets progressively higher until the 6th string.

 

[Inflames626]

I've shimmed a few that had come with 16" radius frets and a stock OFR (german) bridge.

The german OFR would come with a factory shim under the middle four saddles, which would give it a 10" radius.

By just pulling the stock shim out you go to a 12", and with a pair of .2mm under the outers and a single under 5th you go to about 14".

That is the feel I prefer (14" bridge for 16" frets). I use 12" bridges for 14" necks too.
The thing is I also have the bass side of the bridge just a hair higher than the treble side, so the action ends-up being graduated, so the action is lowest for the first string, and gets progressively higher until the 6th string.

Makes sense. I didn't know they came with shims under them. I thought the baseplate was curved that way. I will have to take a look.

Since German OFRs were Schallers to some degree, I bet mine is the same way.

Post 2003 with FR building their own (possibly sourced from Schaller), I find there are small differences in the size of the bridge. OFRs tend to be longer front to back and narrower, and Schallers are wider but shorter. They fit the 90s Jackson MIJ routes better than an OFR.

Makes sense for higher action on the low strings.

I didn't think of your suggestion of shimming the outers and lowering the action to get the inners to lie flat.

Some of my guitars' bridges, even with the claw adjusted, the tuning at equilibrium, truss rod and action set, and intonation adjusted, tilt forward just slightly and the baseplate isn't exactly parallel with the body. I thought lowering the action further might nose dive the bridge and make the center strings bottom out on the frets while the outer strings remained correct while shimmed.

I thought this might be due to the Japanese studs/posts also being skinnier than the ones used in the Schaller kits and maybe the bridge had more room to shift now, but it doesn't seem to affect things. Removing the posts and studs and redrilling larger holes seems like a big chore.

I may leave them at 10". I don't like super flat Ibanez necks and usually adjust my truss rod for slight relief between 5th and 12th fret to make vibrato easier. It's flat again above 12th. A slight arc on the strings does make barre chords easier down low.

I'll have to experiment and look for those shims. I never noticed them before you mentioned them. I usually leave all the Japanese stuff in except for the baseplate, tone block, and saddles.

Thanks again. I've learned a lot from you.

 

[Inflames626]

Did some more research on this. The Floyd Rose R8 .225" sized nut used on Japanese guitars (Schaller does not make an R8) is a 10" radius, so I'm guessing I should use that with a 10-16" bridge.

Would a 10" locking nut be an issue with a 12-16" fretboard?