what do do about a thin sounding amp

[shogunlegend]

alright, i love my mesa boogie express 5:50. it has REAL QUALITY TONE. the ONLY things things that bother me about this amp are the following:

1. the sound is just a little thin for my tastes
2. it sounds soooooo good in recordings, but not as good when practicing

i know it's kind of weird, but i don't like the amp as much for practice even though it records beautifully. compared to say my fender or marshall, it's a little thin in the higher registers. sounds mid-scooped, but then again, i was told that mesa amps kinds of sound mid-scooped anyway.

before somone says something real typical like "adjust your eq," let me tell you that i've done that six ways from sunday. i've tried different pickups, effects pedals, etc... with a metal muff, it thickens up nicely and sounds awesome, but i want to use the amp distortion. i don't know much about changing out mesa tubes, but i would imagine that mesa tubes are among the best and i don't know if going to another brand would help. yes, it's actually slightly thinner, but sweeter, in 5 watt mode.

another thing is that mesa's website says the amp is "fixed biased for consistent performance," or something like that. what does that mean? does that mean that i'm stuck with mesa tubes? can you adjust the bias on a fixed bias amp? i certainly don't want to damage the amp. any ideas?

 

[jeremy]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

i just wrote a nice long post and deleted it. grrr, hate when that happens.

does it sound thin on both channels or just one? what are your eq and volume settings?

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

typically, i set my amps to treble=9-10 o'clock, mids=1-2 o'clock, bass=1-2 o'clock. i use a bedroom level volume for practice, but have tried it around 9-10 o'clock and it's still similar.

the clean channel, which is super awesome by the way, is just fine. not thin to me. the amp, though a little thin, actually seems to sound better with less distortion and more bluesy playing. my problem is that the thinner sounding b a e strings make it hard to sound good shredding. i need a little bit more meat in the high strings. the mid and low strings are excellent and somewhat marshallesque. maybe something between a laney (but better) and a marshall.

i've tried taking down all the highs and pulling up the lows and mids, etc..., but that's not such a great solution for me and doesn't really work well anyway. it has something like a contour knob that helps, but i think it's characteristic of the amp at this point.

i called mesa and they just gave me a good tip though. they said to take the 5th preamp tube and switch it with 1 and 2 to see if it improves. i'm going to try that and hopefully it will work.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

Boogies typically will sound thin if they are not cranked up pretty good. Have yuo thought of a attenuator?

I played boogies for years and their tone controls are interactive and very touchy.....for instance if you raise the treble, it will decrease the bass.

Try setting your tone controls at about 12 o'clock and add and subtract from there and see if it helps.

Good luck...Boogies can sound phenomenal, but can be notoriously difficult to dial in.

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

well, i've tried all the eq options. the amp also has a 5 watt mode switch which sounds really sweet and bluesy. not as much drive, but sweeter. it's actually ever so slightly thinner i think than at a full 50 watts.

i don't want to take it back, but i can get a great deal on a tsl 122. i know the marshall has a sound that i like. i just can't get over the quality of tone and workmanship on the mesa though. what a great amp at a very reasonable price IMO.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

jj tubes

done

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

well, i've tried all the eq options. the amp also has a 5 watt mode switch which sounds really sweet and bluesy. not as much drive, but sweeter. it's actually ever so slightly thinner i think than at a full 50 watts.

i don't want to take it back, but i can get a great deal on a tsl 122. i know the marshall has a sound that i like. i just can't get over the quality of tone and workmanship on the mesa though. what a great amp at a very reasonable price IMO.

I would spend more time witn the Boogie....a simple turn of one of the tone knobs can dramatically alter the tone. You have a good amp that is capable of a lot of good usable tones.....I wouldn't call it quits so quickly.


One other thing I just thought of....Boogies seem to favor a light touch..at least the ones that I have owned...they also sound fatter with the gain lower than you might expect.

 

[arbiter]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

EQ pedal? does the trick for me.

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

good idea, i've been tossing around the idea of getting a boss. how do you use them effectively though? do you just flatten your amp eq and use that or something?

 

[sosomething]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

EQ pedals tend to work best in conjunction with an amp's EQ.

When using one, dial the amp in as close to your desired tone as possible, and tweak specific frequencies with the EQ in the loop.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

jj tubes

done

Have to go +1 on it, get a few ECC83 gold pins for V1, V2 at least. Always good to email Bob and describe the problem he can probably recomend the power tubes too to thicken things up. As well, there is TubeTramp who needs no itnroduction.

 

[LooseCannon]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

Try an EQ pedal in the loop, and plug the amp to a GOOD external cab.

 

[arbiter]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

i have a boss ge7 eq pedal and use it with amp's own eq. but the thing is sensitive. small boosts and cuts in the right freq range is what does the trick. you can also use it to pump up the signal to the amp.

 

[Loserchief]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

jj tubes

done

+1 JJ ECC83s Goldpins are great. Smooth,rich,still clear and very detailed. They should warm and fatten up any amp.

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

apparently mesa boogie won't warrany their amp if you change the tubes with another brand. jj or sovtek sounds like good choices, but i don't want to mess with the warranty.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

Maybe you could trade amps with Kneadmomunny???

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=117293

 

[greendy123]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

I enormous change you could do is do a speaker change. Different speakers change the tone coming from the amp. Try connecting a cab with different speakers at some guitar store and see if that changes anything.

 

[WhammyBar Allstar]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

apparently mesa boogie won't warrany their amp if you change the tubes with another brand. jj or sovtek sounds like good choices, but i don't want to mess with the warranty.

Ahhh... Mesa's, really good amps and sound great! But they are something you have to mess with for a while for different applications. Not a bad thing at all, you really get to know your amp and learn lots of more cool guitargeekery stuff.


I would try going JJ ECC83s in your pre's, you'll lose some sizzle and a little bit of gain and volume, but it will bring the focus of the voicing more towards your mids. You'll have to try taking all the little steps needed to bump up your mids and upper mids to cut through live. You can also try going EL34's, but try the pre's first. Also, try a TS with just as a slight boost/eq to help bump up the mids... it works pretty good.

Turn the gain down and the volume up. Your recording settings are usually always different than your live settings. Sometimes it depends on the sound guy to accurately EQ you through the house. If it's for rehearsal, for sure you'll probably have to EQ differently to cut.

I don't think you'll run into any potential warranty issues with changing your pre's. Just make sure you don't lose the Mesa tubes in case you have to send it in for anything.

As for El34's and your Mesa fixed bias issue, shoot Mike an email over at Kcanos tubes. He can fix you up.

I used a Triple Rec on tour for 13 months. I got pretty good at dialing it in for certain venues.... mind you, not for the house, but for my own stage monitoring, but I also got really good at being able to plow though an arena gig without really being able to hear myself.

 

[shogunlegend]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

thanks, these are some good suggestions. i think the speaker cabinet idea is pretty good. the general consensus seems to be jj tubes, so i'll give them a try.

 

[wahwah]

Re: what do do about a thin sounding amp

apparently mesa boogie won't warrany their amp if you change the tubes with another brand. jj or sovtek sounds like good choices, but i don't want to mess with the warranty.

Mesa tubes are just rebranded Sovteks, so there would be no point in replacing them with more Sovteks. For 6L6GC's, it would be worth trying SED "Winged C's" for their beautiful harmonic complexity and depth. For 12AX7's, just try a few different brands and see what you like. There wouldn't be much point in going vintage in this amp because it would be voiced around current production tubes. Getting those Sovteks out of there should definitely help.



Cheers.............................wahwah