What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

[cmedcoff]

I've got a PRS Torero that I've had the EMG 81/85 and all electronics removed and replaced with a Jazz in the neck and the Pearly Gates trembucker (its got a Floyd). Not happy with the outcome of the bridge. Way too thin/bright. I'm shooting for a much warmer, but not muddy tone. This guitar is mahogany with a maple neck, ebony finger board.

I'm considering the custom or the custom custom. Some of SD's pickups are described as "Designed for brighter toned instruments". What does this mean. While the Torero is certainly brighter than a guitar with a mahogany neck and rosewood fingerboard, I won't call it bright.

Does this mean it will make it brighter? or compensate for a (overly) bright instrument.

I'm open to suggestions for thoughts on pickups.

I put the Jazz from the neck in the bridge (despite the incorrect pole piece alignment) and run the tone control at 1/2 and its better, but hoping for better.

I've got a 500K pot. Maybe go to a 250K? Suggestions?

I should also mention that I play rock to hard rock and plugging into a JVM410 from clean to pretty over driven.

 

[jeremy]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

welcome to the forum!

the custom custom is a warm middy bridge pup, it has highs but they are soft and lows but they arent huge or tight. great pup for solos.

 

[Demanic]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

Or you could try a Jazz bridge with the Jazz neck or even a 59 bridge.

 

[cmedcoff]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

welcome to the forum!

the custom custom is a warm middy bridge pup, it has highs but they are soft and lows but they arent huge or tight. great pup for solos.

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback.

I also have a Custom 24 with a Jazz in the neck and JB in the bridge and it sounds great.. huge. But the Torero being a brighter guitar, not sure the same pickups would work.


I was kind of debating between a JB and a custom custom. I actually liked the JB a bit better in this comparison as it seem to have a bit more bottom end that I would like to have. I'm torn.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

Honestly it's just something a marketing guy put together at some point. There is a school of thought that if you have a bright sounding instrument acoustically, then you will want to warm it up with a warmer sounding pickup. Conversely if you have a dark sounding guitar, you'll want to compliment it with a bright, trebly pickup.

That might be true for some, but many people have chosen bright or dark guitars because they are bright or dark. In other words, if you "fixed" a Rickenbacker by installing a dark humbucker in it, it would have taken away what people like about a Rickenbacker. Someone might have a dark and muddy Les Paul but if they liked it when they bought it, then maybe they still will prefer it with a thick, dark pickup as well.

Take the Custom Custom for example. It wasn't designed for bright sounding instruments. It was designed when they took the Custom (ceramic) and installed an Alnico II magnet. In the same manner, the Alnico II Pro humbucker was born when they took the Jazz pickup and installed an Alnico II magnet. So "works well with" is probably better language than "designed for" but it's of little consequence.

The main thing is that if you knew the pickup was trebly or midrange you or whatever, AND you already know what your guitar sounds like with the pickups in it now, you can make your own educated decision about where to go from there.

 

[cmedcoff]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

Honestly it's just something a marketing guy put together at some point. There is a school of thought that if you have a bright sounding instrument acoustically, then you will want to warm it up with a warmer sounding pickup. Conversely if you have a dark sounding guitar, you'll want to compliment it with a bright, trebly pickup.

That might be true for some, but many people have chosen bright or dark guitars because they are bright or dark. In other words, if you "fixed" a Rickenbacker by installing a dark humbucker in it, it would have taken away what people like about a Rickenbacker. Someone might have a dark and muddy Les Paul but if they liked it when they bought it, then maybe they still will prefer it with a thick, dark pickup as well.

Take the Custom Custom for example. It wasn't designed for bright sounding instruments. It was designed when they took the Custom (ceramic) and installed an Alnico II magnet. In the same manner, the Alnico II Pro humbucker was born when they took the Jazz pickup and installed an Alnico II magnet. So "works well with" is probably better language than "designed for" but it's of little consequence.

The main thing is that if you knew the pickup was trebly or midrange you or whatever, AND you already know what your guitar sounds like with the pickups in it now, you can make your own educated decision about where to go from there.

So from what you said it sounds like you are saying if I find my guitar too bright, and the SD description says 'designed for bright' then it should make it less bright, warmer.

 

[austin]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

True.
-
Austin

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

So from what you said it sounds like you are saying if I find my guitar too bright, and the SD description says 'designed for bright' then it should make it less bright, warmer.

As a very general rule, yes. BUT let's look at it like this: If what you don't like about your bright guitar is that it's really pronounced around 4-5khz. You're alright with 8-12khz because that sounds like "clarity" to you. You like the pick attack, you just dislike the fact that your guitar has this annoying treble that hurts your ears. Your existing pickup has a resonant peak frequency of 6.5khz. Pretend the new ones you're looking at have resonant peak frequencies between 4-5khz. Technically it's "darker sounding" but you're going to absolutely hate it in that guitar. It is implicitly NOT going to get rid of the characteristic you dislike about the guitar. You'll lose clarity AND boost the upper midrange/treble frequencies that you dislike. Also remember cable capacitance drops that peak frequency even lower.

It's possibly you'd prefer a lower wind pickup, with a higher resonant peak, but with more bass and low mids too. There's a lot more to it than Alnico II for bright guitars, Alnico V for dark guitars. The 59 is A5 but in the neck it can get boomy and/or muddy in the wrong guitar. I guess if I'm speaking in generalities, you should look at the situation as both "do I want less treble" and "do I want more bass".

 

[cmedcoff]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

As a very general rule, yes. BUT let's look at it like this: If what you don't like about your bright guitar is that it's really pronounced around 4-5khz. You're alright with 8-12khz because that sounds like "clarity" to you. You like the pick attack, you just dislike the fact that your guitar has this annoying treble that hurts your ears. Your existing pickup has a resonant peak frequency of 6.5khz. Pretend the new ones you're looking at have resonant peak frequencies between 4-5khz. Technically it's "darker sounding" but you're going to absolutely hate it in that guitar. It is implicitly NOT going to get rid of the characteristic you dislike about the guitar. You'll lose clarity AND boost the upper midrange/treble frequencies that you dislike. Also remember cable capacitance drops that peak frequency even lower.

It's possibly you'd prefer a lower wind pickup, with a higher resonant peak, but with more bass and low mids too. There's a lot more to it than Alnico II for bright guitars, Alnico V for dark guitars. The 59 is A5 but in the neck it can get boomy and/or muddy in the wrong guitar. I guess if I'm speaking in generalities, you should look at the situation as both "do I want less treble" and "do I want more bass".

It's early, (I'm slow?, lol), but I'm not sure I understand your point. But to answer the last questions the answer is "yes" and "yes".

Just for fun I'm attaching a frequency analysis of my PRS custom 24 and the Torero with just the Jazz in the neck. Interesting to see the amplitude/frequency comparisons. I know I can't change the basic nature of my guitar given its woods, and bridge, but certainly I can smooth out the harshness of the pickups. I know what this guitar sounded like with EMG's and it was better then the Pearly Gates. I didn't care for the sterility of the active electronics but from a frequency band perspective they were better.

My son, drummer, re-mixer and overall smart muscian, put together the content below:

Regarding the spectral analysis of the Torero vs the Custom, I present my report:

Each guitar was plugged into the computer with the same cable, on the same gain setting, with volume and tone at max. An open A was played. The results are interesting:

The Torero: The harmonics ascend predictably, with some beef in the low mids around 300 - 600 Hz.

The Custom 24 (bridge position): Compared to the Torero, the Custom packs more punch in the low end, especially on the first and second harmonics above the fundamental tone. Also notable is the range above 1500 Hz. The Custom has a much thinner treble range, with a small cluster of harmonics about 2000 Hz. The Torero has more spectral content in that range in comparison. The "washiness" or "shrillness" attributes itself to this. The lesser power in the Torero's bass range likely results in the "thin" sound.

The Custom 24 (neck position):
Considerably less mids around 500 Hz compared to the bridge, with a bit more presence in the highs.

 

[tman]

Re: What does "Designed for brighter toned instruments" mean?

You know like certain woods on a guitar make it brighter overall. I have a strat with a poplar wood body and a maple fretboard and its brighter sounding "trebly" compared to my Mahogoney wood rosewood fretboard Les Paul thats a darker sound more bass and mids