What exactly does unoriented mean?

[Dr.K]

Don't all magnets have to have an orientation?

 

[formula73]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

I've been curious about this too, but I didn't want to ask for fear of looking unenlightened.

 

[Dr.K]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

I've been curious about this too, but I didn't want to ask for fear of looking unenlightened.

Ya me too. I was hoping some other noob would eventually ask. It just wasn't happening so I finally had to bite the bullet.

 

[uOpt]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

Confused user.

 

[Kam]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

What does 'orientation direction' mean?

Most modern magnet materials have a "grain" in that they can be magnetized for maximum effect only through one direction. This is the "orientation direction", also known as the "easy axis", or "axis".

Unoriented magnets (also known as "Isotropic magnets") are much weaker than oriented magnets, and can be magnetized in any direction. Oriented magnets (also known as "Anisotropic magnets") are not the same in every direction - they have a preferred direction in which they should be magnetized.

It's just the way they're formed. Yes, they still have a north and south pole. And no, they won't cause any phase issues with regular pickups.

They just sound different. Generally a little warmer, smoother and sweeter.

A2, A3 and A4 are all unoriented too.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

The magnetic field "lines" on an "oriented magnet" are more uniform and consistent. When they are "unoriented", the field lines are inconsistent and less uniform. It has to do with the way the flux of the metals transmits magnetic field across the surface. Oriented magnets like A5, A8 and ceramic types are more stable and keep their full gauss longer.

 

[icantbuyafender]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

VOODOO

its all VOODOO

nothing more.

try to hear the difference. and please make a video to prove it.

i have to play the devil's advocate

 

[AlexR]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

Easily done.....try an UOA5, then an A5 in the same pickup. Thats the only one where there's an oriented and unoriented within a 'type'. The UOA5 sounds less shrill on the highs and a tad fuller.

Those who've tried know

Those who have an open mind will hear

Those who believe its all voodoo will believe what they want regardless - as they've already got a fixed opinion which won't be changed by anyone or anything.

 

[DesertRat]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

I always thought I was disoriented but now I see I was actually "unoriented", "inconsistent and less uniform".

But seriously, very cool thread people! A real physical explanation for why I love A2's.

 

[TSE]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

How does unoriented affect phase?

 

[AlexR]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

The magnet is still N/S polarised as normal, so no effect on phase

-----------
-----------
-----------
-----------

=oriented

--/--\-/---//--\\
-/-\\--//--\\-\/-\
-////-\-\--//--\-\

=unoriented

The RHS can still be N on both, just that the uniformity is less regular. The pattern of strong and less strong N polarisation is likely to be the bit that curbs the highs and adds some mids

 

[Ventilator]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

Is it possible to acquire magnets that normally come unoriented like an A2 magnet, in an oriented variety?

 

[Kam]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

How does unoriented affect phase?

...

And no, they won't cause any phase issues with regular pickups.

:banghead:

try to hear the difference. and please make a video to prove it.

i have to play the devil's advocate

Try it, man. I try to be cynical too, but play an A5 back to back in the same pup with a UOA5 and you'll hear a difference. Trust me. You may not think it's a big difference, but it's pretty night and day in some applications.

Is it possible to acquire magnets that normally come unoriented like an A2 magnet, in an oriented variety?

That's an interesting thought, actually. I have no idea. I'd imagine not but it'd be cool if you could.

 

[Dr.K]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

So, if I'm am to understand this correctly, it has to do with the grain patterns in the material. With that said, wouldn't a certain type of material lets say A5 have similar grain patterns? If so then how do we get an oriented A5 and an unoriented A5, wouldn't they be different materials? Or, is it just the proccess in which they are cast?

 

[MattPete]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

Orientation (isotroic vs anisotropic) refers to the orientation of the crystals. An anisotropic (oriented) magnet is made by heating and cooling the material in a magnetic field, which has the effect of lining up the crystals along the magnetic field. This also means that an oriented magnet has a preferred direction in which to be magnetized.

The end result is that the oriented magnets are more powerful. In an unoriented magnet, there is more variability, at the crystalline level, in the local magnetic fields, which in turns causes them to partially cancel out (at the macro level).

 

[blueman335]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

...an oriented magnet has a preferred direction in which to be magnetized. The end result is that the oriented magnets are more powerful. In an unoriented magnet, there is more variability, at the crystalline level, in the local magnetic fields...

And that's what gives richer tones! Instead of a sharply-defined magnetic field, from an oriented, polished magnet, you get a more complex and varied magnetic field because of the lack of internal crystal orientation, and from the rough external surfaces, which are lumpy and pitted from sand grains. Listening to it, you'd never guess an UOA5 was even related to the typical polished A5. UOA5's sound more like an A2, but with more treble and output, and a tigher low end. The best of both.

If you have an A5 PU and need a bit of warmth and a smoother high end, but an UOA5 is too warm, try a roughcast A5. With three versions to choose from, A5's are the most versatile alnico magnet, and may be all you ever need.

 

[Kam]

Re: What exactly does unoriented mean?

Orientation (isotroic vs anisotropic) refers to the orientation of the crystals. An anisotropic (oriented) magnet is made by heating and cooling the material in a magnetic field, which has the effect of lining up the crystals along the magnetic field. This also means that an oriented magnet has a preferred direction in which to be magnetized.

The end result is that the oriented magnets are more powerful. In an unoriented magnet, there is more variability, at the crystalline level, in the local magnetic fields, which in turns causes them to partially cancel out (at the macro level).

That's actually one of the best and easiest to grasp explanations I've ever heard here on this subject. Thanks for posting that.