What factors about Pickup Construction results in different tones?

H

H13

New member
Okay so if we consider an acoustic guitar, we know there's a lot of things that impact how it sounds. The types of wood used, the bracing, the dimensions of the body etc. etc. etc.

I would like to know what about a pickup's construction changes the way it sounds.

In other words, when Seymour Duncan sits down to design a new pickup, I'm sure there is a general plan in mind. EG: They want to design a pickup which has a certain frequency response, level of output, dynamic range and timbre.

What factors, when constructing a pickup, help them achieve the results they are looking for? EG: If they are trying to make a really bright sounding pickup, what decisions goes into building a pickup which ensures it will have a bright top end sound?

From my understanding, pickups are just...a magnet, held in place by plastic bobbins, that has a shitload of copper wound around it. Pickups DO respond differently and have different tonalities, but based on my (admittedly limited) understanding of what goes into a pickup, I don't know how they could be tuned to create desired outcomes...
 
yeah, just a few thousand turns of wire on some plastic and a magnet.

magnet. wire. wind pattern, tension, turn count
 
Then minor things like baseplate material, steel types for keeper bar, slugs and screws, plus the cover as well.

In short every aspect of a pickup can affect tone.
 
H13 said:
From my understanding, pickups are just...a magnet, held in place by plastic bobbins, that has a ****load of copper wound around it. Pickups DO respond differently and have different tonalities, but based on my (admittedly limited) understanding of what goes into a pickup, I don't know how they could be tuned to create desired outcomes...
Click to expand...

lmao talk about reductive
 
Wire thickness and insulation type, wire tension, number of wraps, how the wire is laid on the bobbin, bobbin height/width, pole piece number/shape/composition/mass, the number/type/size of magnets, baseplate material, cover material, keeper bars, shielding...pretty much everything other than the actual bobbin material and spacers can make a difference.

Even if most differences are very small, these factors have a tendency to add up to create different flavors and characteristics, allowing a knowledgeable winder to fine-tune their designs.
(initiate flaming, ha ha! :firedevil)
 
jeremy said:
yeah, just a few thousand turns of wire on some plastic and a magnet.

magnet. wire. wind pattern, tension, turn count
Click to expand...

Poles used (rod, hex, screw, slug, rail, staple) changes the magnetic field which alters the sound. Metal covers have measurable differences to high end, and even wax potting can measurably change the way a pickup sounds too.
 
Chistopher said:
I think that's backwards. Everyone else hypes pickups up too much.
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still a bigger component of a guitar sound than tone wood, fret material, or nut material. however, aside from single-coil vs humbucker, your "Final Sound" characteristics mostly come from your processing and and recording gear: pedals, amp, speakers, mic, and mic placement. if u wanna talk about hype, that's tone wood, my dude
 
RanchManSandy said:
lmao talk about reductive
Click to expand...

Great response! You obviously missed the point where I said my understanding was pretty goddamn limited. Which is why I'm asking these questions in the first place. I know you were born with such knowledge oh great one but not all of us were...

So from the variety of responses people have put in here, it all comes down to the super minor details. That's cool and makes sense, but can somebody explain what difference those details make?

- Number of winds
- Poles used
- Wire thickness
- Wire insulation type
- How the wire is laid on the bobbin
- Baseplate material

etc.

In other words:

If Seymour Duncan was going to sit down and design two different bridge humbuckers. One they wanted to be big and open, not too tight and a fair bit of bassy warmth. Meanwhile, the other pickup they wanted to be aggressive, tight and bright. Both pickups had to have a similar output.

What is going to be the construction differences between those two pickups?
 
Everything everyone has given you is correct, but it's just a preview. To understand how this stuff works you've got to read the 'book'... Search the web there's multiple primers that walk through the details.

Bottom line, is it's not easy.. it may seem like a small number of variables but they're all interactive it can be really hard to tell where the differences are coming from unless you've done this a lot.

Just search on magnet swaps, it's plenty to blow your mind.
 
H13 said:
Great response! You obviously missed the point where I said my understanding was pretty goddamn limited. Which is why I'm asking these questions in the first place. I know you were born with such knowledge oh great one but not all of us were...

So from the variety of responses people have put in here, it all comes down to the super minor details. That's cool and makes sense, but can somebody explain what difference those details make?

- Number of winds
- Poles used
- Wire thickness
- Wire insulation type
- How the wire is laid on the bobbin
- Baseplate material

etc.

In other words:

If Seymour Duncan was going to sit down and design two different bridge humbuckers. One they wanted to be big and open, not too tight and a fair bit of bassy warmth. Meanwhile, the other pickup they wanted to be aggressive, tight and bright. Both pickups had to have a similar output.

What is going to be the construction differences between those two pickups?
Click to expand...

You won't get a definitive answer, because all of those aspects (that haven't been revealed to the public already) are trade secrets of how they introduce new products to the market.
 
for example an interview with DiMarzio designer:

"Q: What are the differences between D Sonic & Crunch Lab and Air Norton & LiquiFire? In the terms of winding, magnets, structure, material and sound-wise?

Steve Blucher: The earlier and newer models may appear to be very similar in both construction and material, but the new models include many subtle internal changes which we have learned over time can make large differences in performance. Unfortunately, they are the sort of changes we cannot be specific about, because they involve methods of doing things that I do not think other companies are doing."

there is real secret sauce involved in building pickups...
 
Yes, there's dozens of web pages on the subject. And as illustrated for instance by the work of Dan Carson under the supervision of Pr Errede (among many others), it's possible to devote years of researches + a PhD thesis to these futile guitar magnetic pickups "just" made of a few components.


SIDE NOTES

+1 about trade secrets : it took 3 years to my friend luthier/winder to design his most personal humbuckers and I don't see myself asking him to share publically what made him earn (but also spend) his life.

Regarding reliable online ressources, there's limitations to take in account: on one hand, pickups makers won't reveal for free really sensible information, which would be the most useful for inquiring minds. On the other hand, "theoricians" often share all they can find, understand and explain but... empirical reality doesn't always agree with pure theory because of unseen factors or unexpected interactions.

I've still to find a satisfying online explanation about DiMarzio Dual-Resonance, for instance: either this topic is prudently or strategically ignored, either it's qualified as "BS" because of some hostile presuppositions and/or serious misunderstanding. A same guy under various screen-names periodically vilifies DiMarzio on this question and although he's knowledgeable, it's always in these cases as if his mind was clouded by anger against DM rather than able to deal with objective reality.
 
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