What generates quack????

JohnnyGuitar

JohnnyGuitar

New member
Well,
I've played a few strats who had none at all (I've been picking them in every possible way, trying to imagine I am Knopfler and things just didn't happen). They didn't have a reverse middle pup tone...

Got me thinking- what features in he pickup lay out makes the guitar quack more... here's what I know (and most things have a contrdicting version):

1. The height of the middle pickup should be lower.
2. The output of the pickups should be the same (which probably stands in contradiction to 1. because lowering the pickups take away a little of the output).
3. The magnets should be the same.
4. The greater the distance between the pups they quack more -which means a balanced tele should have some good quack... actually IMO it does. It also means that two split humbuckers in a HH guitar should have good quack too.
5. It's the exact distance between the strat pups that makes the guitar quack and you can't get it from other guitars (not true in my experience).
6. Low output, bright alnico 5 pups are better for the job.
7. Being Robert Cray or Knopfler is better for quacking then anything else...

So could anyone help me clear these technical issue? :reporter:
 
Re: What generates quack????

You HAVE to be Knopfler. :)


J/K. In my experience, low output, staggered pole pickups work best for that, as does lowering the mid pickup. Why it happens, I don't know.

I was once told it had something to do with phase cancellation, but I'm not sure of that.
 
Re: What generates quack????

In a Strat setup, my personal "calibration" is to have the hottest in the bridge, the lowest output in the middle, and the in-betweener in the neck. Some calibrated sets have them set in order (high/mid/low) as some silly need to balance the output of each position. To me that actually reduces quack. I always use an extremely low-vintage wind in the middle. The glassier and brighter the middle pickup is, with the least amount of midrange fatness, is my favorite. So I'm on board with the "lowering the middle pickup" tip, because it increases that as well. I have a couple guitars with the vintage "same output in each position" setup, but mostly it's a hotter neck, weaker middle that adds to the phase cancellation combing.

Quack is a comb filtering of sorts. It's like extremely narrow bands here and there are cancelled out almost entirely. So that, to me, is what makes it so responsive to your playing style ("have to BE Mark Knopfler to sound like...) With good quack, you can really manipulate what frequency segments jump out, and you can manipulate the attack a lot more than with, say a set of gold lace sensors for example :no: :duck: .
 
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Re: What generates quack????

yup, all that ... and ...

it seems to help to play with your fingers instead of a pick

good luck - have fun
t4d
 
Re: What generates quack????

Funny, I read somewhere (I think it was the Lace website) that having pups with the same output in all position makes you quack harder. :)
I'm really, not sure that it's true. Really not sure about the same magnet too(A5's with A5's, A2's with A2's etc.). Didn't own enough replacement pups to find out.

Frank, why do you think it is important to have the middle pickup with lower output?
My guess is that you still can retain the quack in the neck+middle position if you have a lower output pup in the neck... two high output pups- in the middle and bridge should lower it in these position... so having it in the middle is just a compromise so you could get that increased response in postions 2 and 4.
 
Re: What generates quack????

jazzerlbn-To me the higher degree of variance between the two pickups creates a better texture of combing and phase cancelation IMO. In other words, a Stag Mag wired in parallel has far less quack than the same coils spread apart in the strat n/m position. It's because of the greater variance in what the coil is actually hearing. So to further vary it by brightening the middle coil and fattening the neck coil is more pleasing to me. And if the coils are wound differently (neck=fat, middle=clean & bright) then you can raise the middle pickup a little bit higher and maintain good quack and separation between the pickups. With the middle pickup a little closer, you pick up a little more attack from that pickup as well. It bugs me when the middle pickup is in the way of the pick, too, but sonically I don't like it really far down either.

watersbluebird-quack is the sqwawking sound you get from strat positions 2 and 4, and to a lesser degree, tele position 2. It's a phenomenon where you have pickup A (neck pickup) and pickup B (middle) for example. They have their own sounds when used individually. But when combined together in parallel, a totally unique, new sound occurs, with frequencies unheard in the individual pups, and others that seem to be cancelled out. A Les Paul has so much meat in the lower midrange that the middle position doesn't really produce the same phenomenon. The LP middle sound is more of a combination of the two sounds. It's really more of a "single coils in parallel" kind of thing. So like:

LP: A+B=AB
Strat: A+B=C
 
Re: What generates quack????

and yet---Hubert Sumlin (guitarist for Howlin Wolf, aka The Godfather of Quack) used a LP Goldtop with out of phase magnets and got the biggest quack...and that's where Buddy/Clapton/etc etc got it from.
 
Re: What generates quack????

For quack, what about the Duncan Duckbuckers?

"You get all the warm tone, cool output, and outrageous “quack” of a vintage Strat® pickup, but no hum."
 
Re: What generates quack????

ES350: You're right.. it's not only a single coil thing... but it's more about the player.. you can get any guitar to have some twang for example by playing a little closer to the bridge... your spot on the strings makes a huge difference... the way you fret is also important- EVH plays all over the place with his picking hand (much due to his use of tapping) and he still gets his signature tone on almost any guitar.

Watersbluebird- put on Dire Straits- Sultand of Swing... if it doesn't quack for you get a better CD player.

Frank: nice description. I actually do think that a tele might get better quack because of the distance between the pups. Most teles are really not balanced between the neck and the bridge - the bridge overpowers the neck and you don't get that tone.


What I still would like to know.. if anyone had some experience with it- could an A2 middle and A5 neck, for example, get that quack or is having the same magnets is a condition?
 
Re: What generates quack????

frankfalbo said:
jazzerlbn-To me the higher degree of variance between the two pickups creates a better texture of combing and phase cancelation IMO. In other words, a Stag Mag wired in parallel has far less quack than the same coils spread apart in the strat n/m position. It's because of the greater variance in what the coil is actually hearing. So to further vary it by brightening the middle coil and fattening the neck coil is more pleasing to me. And if the coils are wound differently (neck=fat, middle=clean & bright) then you can raise the middle pickup a little bit higher and maintain good quack and separation between the pickups. With the middle pickup a little closer, you pick up a little more attack from that pickup as well. It bugs me when the middle pickup is in the way of the pick, too, but sonically I don't like it really far down either.

watersbluebird-quack is the sqwawking sound you get from strat positions 2 and 4, and to a lesser degree, tele position 2. It's a phenomenon where you have pickup A (neck pickup) and pickup B (middle) for example. They have their own sounds when used individually. But when combined together in parallel, a totally unique, new sound occurs, with frequencies unheard in the individual pups, and others that seem to be cancelled out. A Les Paul has so much meat in the lower midrange that the middle position doesn't really produce the same phenomenon. The LP middle sound is more of a combination of the two sounds. It's really more of a "single coils in parallel" kind of thing. So like:

LP: A+B=AB
Strat: A+B=C
Click to expand...

Frank, I think LP tone gives you a 3rd different tone too. I call it a twang or sting, that classic BB King or Jimmy Page middle tone that just doesn't sound anything like either pickup by itself. Some humbucker sets interact this way better than others, some just giving you mud in the middle position, but a righteous humbucker set should absolutely deliver that twang in spades.

Anyway, Strat quack is a middle pickup thing. You can't get quack (bridge/middle) or cluck (neck/middle) from a 2-pup guitar (like an LP) because there is no middle pickup. The Tele middle tone is just a skinnier version of the LP middle tone. Like the LP, I would call it a twang or sting, not a quack or cluck.

(I think it does help a bit to set the middle pu lower than the other two as someone else said.)

I have found that you very much CAN get quack with Strat singles of different Alnico grades, as long as the middle pu has a thinner/brighter than average tone with a bit less output than the other two, and preferably a bridge pickup that's significantly hotter than the neck. An overwound Alnico 2 bridge will work very well with a vintage output Alnico 5 middle for cluck. And, if you are making an Alnico 2 pickup set, Alnico 3 is a plus in the middle position for classic #2/#4 quack and cluck because it is a little brighter and chimier than Alnico 2.

This leads to a bit of a dilemma though, for folks who want both serious quack AND a loud, rude middle pu alone tone. But you can easily solve this problem with a tapped middle pu and a push/pull pot, as I did on my own Strat. It's 7.1k full and 6.3k tapped.

One last thing, never to be overlooked, is, of course, playing technique. Picking the strings between bridge and middle give you the best bridge/middle pu quack, and picking the string between the neck and middle pu's give you the best neck/middle pu cluck.
 
Re: What generates quack????

again---go listen to Hubert Sumlin on the Wolf Chess stuff if you want to hear quack on a LP---it was a factory second with reversed magnets in one of the P90's.
 
Re: What generates quack????

METALMAN......
Dimebag Darrell is O. K., but have you ever heard him play clean? I am from Arlington, Tx. and i have. Let me say this, clean with no effects means you can't hide behind tons of "foot goodies!" I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.
 
Re: What generates quack????

WORSHIPTEAM said:
METALMAN......
Dimebag Darrell is O. K., but have you ever heard him play clean? I am from Arlington, Tx. and i have. Let me say this, clean with no effects means you can't hide behind tons of "foot goodies!" I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.
Click to expand...

What does that has to do with anything? :no:
 
Re: What generates quack????

This is one of those subjects where we hear, and interpret, "quack" in our own way. My two best "Sultans of Swing" tone came in oddball configurations:

1. Three SSL-6's all in parallel.
2. Middle SSL-6 and bridge SSL-3 in series - both tapped.

I'm guessing that in both cases, I was getting some degree of single-coil quack, combined with over-wound mellowness, plus a bit of distributed/balanced resonant peak. Smooooth.

Make sense?
 
Re: What generates quack????

ArtieToo said:
This is one of those subjects where we hear, and interpret, "quack" in our own way. My two best "Sultans of Swing" tone came in oddball configurations:

1. Three SSL-6's all in parallel.
2. Middle SSL-6 and bridge SSL-3 in series - both tapped.

I'm guessing that in both cases, I was getting some degree of single-coil quack, combined with over-wound mellowness, plus a bit of distributed/balanced resonant peak. Smooooth.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

Over wound mellowness? it is exactly the way I won't describe an over-wound pup...
 
Re: What generates quack????

jazzerlbn said:
Over wound mellowness? it is exactly the way I won't describe an over-wound pup...
Click to expand...

A "single" pup . . . I agree. Two or more in combination, is different. ;)
 
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