What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
- Thread starter Iron1
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weepingminotaur
Well-known member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Yeah, I certainly don't claim to be an authority on Black Winters, but I do have 'em in a guitar, and IMO there is really no comparing them to any other pickup out there. What they have going is weirdly unique. I mean sure, you can put them in the same category as the JB and the Distortion as far as metal pickups go, but that's where the similarity ends for me. The Winters have piercing upper-mid clarity that distinguishes them from a JB or Distortion. The bass isn't weak by any means, but it's tight where the JB (to me) is a bit loose.
With most other pickups, you could probably get within ballpark distance, but the Winter is really a thing of its own. If you've already got the Winter in a guitar as a complement to the Nazgul, I'd suggest either buying another Winter for that third guitar and playing around with EQ until you find a slightly different but complementary sound, or installing another metal pickup (Invader or JB or whatever) and letting go of approximating the Winter tone. That Merrow SD pickup comparison video, which I'm sure you've probably seen, might help you get close.
Yeah, I certainly don't claim to be an authority on Black Winters, but I do have 'em in a guitar, and IMO there is really no comparing them to any other pickup out there. What they have going is weirdly unique. I mean sure, you can put them in the same category as the JB and the Distortion as far as metal pickups go, but that's where the similarity ends for me. The Winters have piercing upper-mid clarity that distinguishes them from a JB or Distortion. The bass isn't weak by any means, but it's tight where the JB (to me) is a bit loose.
With most other pickups, you could probably get within ballpark distance, but the Winter is really a thing of its own. If you've already got the Winter in a guitar as a complement to the Nazgul, I'd suggest either buying another Winter for that third guitar and playing around with EQ until you find a slightly different but complementary sound, or installing another metal pickup (Invader or JB or whatever) and letting go of approximating the Winter tone. That Merrow SD pickup comparison video, which I'm sure you've probably seen, might help you get close.
Francois
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Thank Rex Rocker.
In the Seymour Duncan site all the BW (neck & bridge) three bars tone profile "EQ BMT" shows more Medium... (Previously I did not see it because I was always watching the set which doesn't have grey bar chart.)
Anybody has compared the X2N to the BW ?
(I already asked this somewhere else but...)
Thank Rex Rocker.
In the Seymour Duncan site all the BW (neck & bridge) three bars tone profile "EQ BMT" shows more Medium... (Previously I did not see it because I was always watching the set which doesn't have grey bar chart.)
Anybody has compared the X2N to the BW ?
(I already asked this somewhere else but...)
Francois
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
It is good to have a new BW thread as the other one with over 27 pages is hard to digest
I will soon get the guitar I was waiting for to install a BW set on it... But I am wondering now :
I suppsoe the BW is better as a set but anyone there prefers a combination like Black Winter bridge with Sentient Neck ?
(I like the Pegasus fat horn-like sound in the 15 SD humbuckers comparaison video.)
It is good to have a new BW thread as the other one with over 27 pages is hard to digest
I will soon get the guitar I was waiting for to install a BW set on it... But I am wondering now :
I suppsoe the BW is better as a set but anyone there prefers a combination like Black Winter bridge with Sentient Neck ?
(I like the Pegasus fat horn-like sound in the 15 SD humbuckers comparaison video.)
Iron1
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
But the curve is the same, so it should give the same flavor, right?
This made me wonder, anyone put a BW neck pup in the bridge position? I'd assume it would be closest tonally, although obviously not as hot.
But the curve is the same, so it should give the same flavor, right?
Francois
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Yeah same curve with calibarted output.
But I listened again the 15 HB comparaison video... (euh...limited to metal style).
And while there is no pup I dislike and it is harder to say which one I prefer, each time the SH-5 custom wins to my (damaged) ears.
So did anyone tried pairing a BW with a Custom 5 in either position but rather Black Winter (B) and Custom (N).
Mid hump bridge with scooped neck :
Yeah same curve with calibarted output.
But I listened again the 15 HB comparaison video... (euh...limited to metal style).
And while there is no pup I dislike and it is harder to say which one I prefer, each time the SH-5 custom wins to my (damaged) ears.
So did anyone tried pairing a BW with a Custom 5 in either position but rather Black Winter (B) and Custom (N).
Mid hump bridge with scooped neck :
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Never heard of a Custom used as a neck pickup- sounds like uncharted territory; perhaps you'll be the "pioneer" in that regard? There are definitely proponents here on the forum, for using bridge models in the neck slot.
Try a Sentient paired with your BW bridge? The Sentient works well with the Nazgul, of course. I will say, for a short time i did have the Sentient paired with Black Winter bridge, and it was a good combo. However it's been a while, and i did some pickup-swapping, so my BW is currently not installed in anything. (But i do plan to install the BW bridge and Sentient neck into one of my Banshees.) Good luck!
Never heard of a Custom used as a neck pickup- sounds like uncharted territory; perhaps you'll be the "pioneer" in that regard? There are definitely proponents here on the forum, for using bridge models in the neck slot.
Try a Sentient paired with your BW bridge? The Sentient works well with the Nazgul, of course. I will say, for a short time i did have the Sentient paired with Black Winter bridge, and it was a good combo. However it's been a while, and i did some pickup-swapping, so my BW is currently not installed in anything. (But i do plan to install the BW bridge and Sentient neck into one of my Banshees.) Good luck!
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
FWIW I would caution putting too much faith in a 3-bar chart to predict pickup tones. It’s a general comparison guide but not an absolute measure of what the pickup sounds like.
IME some of what makes these pickups distinct and unique happens in the spaces between those three bars, and those three bars are not absolute - for example put a bright pickup in a dark sounding guitar and it will not sound so bright. Or put a tight even pickup in a thumpy low end guitar and the pickup could end up muddy. It’s really trial and error.
With regard to putting a neck in the bridge, it can be a great thing, but because of the location along the string where the neck is now picking up vibrations, it will sound very different - it will not sound like the same pickup just quieter. It’s more likely it will sound brighter and cleaner with more bass rolled off, IME. (Note I haven’t done this with my BWs but I have done this with other sets.)
This made me wonder, anyone put a BW neck pup in the bridge position? I'd assume it would be closest tonally, although obviously not as hot.
But the curve is the same, so it should give the same flavor, right?
FWIW I would caution putting too much faith in a 3-bar chart to predict pickup tones. It’s a general comparison guide but not an absolute measure of what the pickup sounds like.
IME some of what makes these pickups distinct and unique happens in the spaces between those three bars, and those three bars are not absolute - for example put a bright pickup in a dark sounding guitar and it will not sound so bright. Or put a tight even pickup in a thumpy low end guitar and the pickup could end up muddy. It’s really trial and error.
With regard to putting a neck in the bridge, it can be a great thing, but because of the location along the string where the neck is now picking up vibrations, it will sound very different - it will not sound like the same pickup just quieter. It’s more likely it will sound brighter and cleaner with more bass rolled off, IME. (Note I haven’t done this with my BWs but I have done this with other sets.)
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
The Custom 5 can sound pretty good in the neck of a 24 fret guitar, not so sure how a standard Custom would work though.
The Custom 5 can sound pretty good in the neck of a 24 fret guitar, not so sure how a standard Custom would work though.
Iron1
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Love the 32-band idea. Maybe y’all put the 3-band on the first page then a 32-band on the “details” page?
Love the 32-band idea. Maybe y’all put the 3-band on the first page then a 32-band on the “details” page?
Chistopher
malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
A 32-band graph wouldn't mean anything if you weren't using the exact rig as the person who made it.
A 32-band graph wouldn't mean anything if you weren't using the exact rig as the person who made it.
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Obviously, it would be another tool. Using terms like 'articulate' aren't always helpful either, especially with different guitars/players. To get reasonably accurate EQ graphs, you'd have to devise a system to where the same guitar is plucked the same way with the same force every time.
Obviously, it would be another tool. Using terms like 'articulate' aren't always helpful either, especially with different guitars/players. To get reasonably accurate EQ graphs, you'd have to devise a system to where the same guitar is plucked the same way with the same force every time.
Iron1
New member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
But it would mean something if the graphs were created using the same rig. Obviously everything from playing style to pick to strings to wood to body shape blah blah blah is going to augment the final tone, but you gotta start somewhere.
But it would mean something if the graphs were created using the same rig. Obviously everything from playing style to pick to strings to wood to body shape blah blah blah is going to augment the final tone, but you gotta start somewhere.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
Most guitar players can largely agree on terms to describe the various frequencies they are hearing from specific models of pickups (warm, muddy, chunky, tight, chime, spike, brightness, top end, honk, clarity, dark, etc.), despite using completely different guitars into completely different amps in completely different rooms all across planet Earth. I have to believe there is some kind of visual scale that would satisfy the same purpose.
Most guitar players can largely agree on terms to describe the various frequencies they are hearing from specific models of pickups (warm, muddy, chunky, tight, chime, spike, brightness, top end, honk, clarity, dark, etc.), despite using completely different guitars into completely different amps in completely different rooms all across planet Earth. I have to believe there is some kind of visual scale that would satisfy the same purpose.
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weepingminotaur
Well-known member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
I don't know that an extended graph would be any more meaningful than the three-bar chart. IMO it would just take up more space on the product pages and scare off a subsection of potential customers (on account of looking too technical). I find the current three-bar chart very helpful in giving me a quick visual read on a given pickup -- don't underestimate how immediately useful and accessible it is -- but of course it's not everything. The chart, clips, playing, listening, trusting your own sense of what you want, knowing that a pickup will sound a certain way in someone else's guitar but not yours -- that's why it's an art, not a science.
I don't know that an extended graph would be any more meaningful than the three-bar chart. IMO it would just take up more space on the product pages and scare off a subsection of potential customers (on account of looking too technical). I find the current three-bar chart very helpful in giving me a quick visual read on a given pickup -- don't underestimate how immediately useful and accessible it is -- but of course it's not everything. The chart, clips, playing, listening, trusting your own sense of what you want, knowing that a pickup will sound a certain way in someone else's guitar but not yours -- that's why it's an art, not a science.
Masta' C
Well-known member
Re: What is closest to a Black Winter, tone-wise?
The 3-bar graph has been incredibly inconsistent in my own experience, but there's not much else to go on. Outside of trying a pickup on your own, through your own setup, there's no "perfect" way to relay how a pickup sounds. I mean, look...as a group, we can't even agree on what is/isn't closest to a Black Winter! Tone is so subjective. That said, I'm the most right
The 3-bar graph has been incredibly inconsistent in my own experience, but there's not much else to go on. Outside of trying a pickup on your own, through your own setup, there's no "perfect" way to relay how a pickup sounds. I mean, look...as a group, we can't even agree on what is/isn't closest to a Black Winter! Tone is so subjective. That said, I'm the most right
