What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

[jimo]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

This is akin to the CEO of Harley Davidson asking their customers what they think of moving production to Japan....hahahahahaha

By the way the average wage in a Chinese factory : Last year salaries surged 40%, to an average of $160 a month. There is bound to be a bean counter in any American Company who is going to take notice.........but then again..who is going to be left here to BUY the products.? ..Tell your kids to stay in school because , .blue collar job are going bye bye.......

 

[woemoejack]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

what is the value of Made in USA to you in general and for Seymour Duncan?

To me, it is invaluable to know that the product is made domestically. I like to support American companies as much as possible because the company is in turn supporting America in the same respect. Couple that with decades of tradition, reliability, affordability, unparalleled customer support, and you get good results. It makes me think that the owner wants to do right by his fellow citizens and support his local community. It makes me believe that greed is not a factor of his business ethics.

I can only assume that the US is your largest customer base and we are all sure that you know that it means a lot to the majority of those customers.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Imenator and Hyperborea,

I don't really get how your statements are a response to what others are saying. The majority of us are not saying that stuff is crap simply because it is not made here. Nor are we saying to only buy U.S.-made products. We are simply saying that we don't want more U.S. jobs outsourced. A U.S.-based company using foreign labor to produce the goods is much more repulsive to me than any drop in quality that may occur.

I just answered to the question of "What is the value of Made in USA". For me "Made by Seymour Duncan" has more value than "Made in USA" because their leadership comes from people who loves music and look for innovation and quality. I guess that is why they are not afraid to let the cameras into the plant and even their workstations to show it.

If one day this company gets in hands of some bean counter CEO (even an american one) then I am sure it will be focused on revenue rather than quality.

Finally I understand the situation about keeping jobs is US is diffcult so I guess that is why this thread became a little bit political. I hope we all can keep our jobs so they won't cut the electricity, I still want to crank the amp at 11 and play my guitar to forget about the world economy!!! :friday:

 

[Pierre]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Made In USA means absolutely NOTHING to me.

However, this is only valid in an ideal world where every factory has the same consistency.
This is valid for whatever production: if you can keep the same quality and consistency, I will not give a damn where it's from.

 

[Filipe Marquez]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

I'm brazilian, and my feeling is very simple: If you start producing outside the U.S, i'll stop buying Seymour's.

As a consumer, we already have companies here that produce pickups as good as (or better) than Seymour's. They build it by hand, like the Bare Knuckle one's, and virtuoso guitarists use them in place of Seymour's or Dimarzio's.

Personally, with Seymour i feel i'm getting a product with a history on it, a product that many guitar legends have used, and that is produced by people that love their jobs, and get well-paid for it.

I say that cause in REALITY, you can get product quality in any country. People are the same everywhere, and as there's talented people in the U.S there's talented people in Brazil, there's talented people in Vietnam, and there's talented people in Afghanistan. You can even teach a tribal indian to build a good pickup if he's interested in it.

For the musicians, i wouldn't say it will be a bad thing if good companies like yours started to produce overseas for cheaper workhand, but i sincerely believe that this policy will help killing the myth about american products. People will either stop giving so much attention to gear, turn to other companies that still produce in U.S or the U.K, or, like in my case, will start buying from local companies.

All in all if i were friends with any of you, i would say do it in case you want to get richer or more or less maintain your lifestyle. But, as a customer i would be heartbroken.

And, in case you actually do it, you could also make a huge stack of american made pickups before changing your production to china, indonesia, korea or japan. Then when you actually move it to there, the price of U.S made Seymour's would go to the roof. That would be another way of getting more money.

 

[raystone]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

If you make pickups overseas I will stop buying them. When companies move overseas the quality always goes down because the people making the product just dont care as much as an american worker does. Plus the quality control is not like the quality control that we have here.Moving overseas will cheapen the product not only in price but also in quality.

 

[orpheo]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

My first thought was 'NO! don't go manufacturing the pickups in asia!' (cause, where else than asia? africa? antartica? europe is no way a viable option cause its just as expensive as the US, maybe even more so). To me the financial aspect of moving abroad is the single most important reason to move. Lower salaries!

Then I started thinking. why would that be a bad thing? Suppose the workers get less pay in Asia than in the USA, but the wire, the bobbins, magnets, slugs, designs, etc etc remain the same. would that impact the tone? If I were a hardcore corksniffer I would hear the difference. Or at least, I would THINK I could here it.

for example: the leesona's were designed to run on 110v. in asia they use 230volts, so there's a need for a stepdown transformers and that makes the winder go 'booohhh' and I hear it cause there's a little 'sag' in the lows, compared to my 'old style US made' pickup'.

Sure, that part is full of hogwash, but I'm sure there are people (here) who can 'hear' the difference, and have such a big mouth/influence that they can persuade tons of people to hear the same, and thus make 'asian made' duncans less attractive.

So, what it means to me, 'made in usa'? little to nothing in terms of quality. its a 'feel' thing. I like to have made in USA PICKUPS and bodies + necks, but I don't mind using gotoh bridges and tuners. for some reason, it just doesn't matter that much because Gotoh as a brand(name) is superpopular. why? because what they make is VERY good!

So... If duncan wants to go to asia, thats fine. but: keep on making US-pickups as you are doing right now. don't change a thing into the negative (when you start making pickups in Asia) (i.e.: higher prices for whats being offered right now!). Instead, go abroad and start it up under a different name. Uhm... ' MJ pickups (by Seymour Duncan' at a lower price setting. Just like Gibson did with the Orville by Gibson-line. Highly respected on its own, clearly defined, great value great quality, but at a lower price setting than the MIA-gibsons.

thats just my idea about the whole thing.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

^ It's almost a certainty that many players would insist that the "new" ones made overseas don't sound as good as the "old" ones made in Santa Barbara. This might be total nonsense, might not. Regardless, there would be a perception that the new pickups just aren't the same thing, and they would be less desirable in some eyes. Prices on used and NOS Cali pickups would rise; players would probably be more reluctant to part with them and experiment.

Even though I might not well be able to hear, feel, or see a difference between a Santa Barbara Duncan and a hypothetical outsourced pickup of the same model, there will always be the mojo factor.

Mojo is in the mind of the beholder, so there's no debunking it. You can't argue with mojo; if a player believes that an inanimate object has a little tiny soul of sorts -- and that another doesn't -- you can't really change her mind about it. Especially with pickups… someone mentioned earlier that the pickups are the soul of the instrument. I think when it comes to pickups, either you believe the pickup is on your side, or you do not. (Except maybe the Jazz; I can understand the ambiguity there.)

Point is, it's nuts. Beyond a certain level, we still make many of our buying decisions for largely emotional reasons. This is especially true where musical instruments are concerned. We want our mojo, and that's not something that travels well in a giant shipping container on a slow boat from wherever.

 

[Rusty Fingers]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

You know, this may have just been a question to determine what font size to use for MADE IN THE USA on the packaging! ;-)

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

^ That's sounding about right, at least at the moment.

 

[orpheo]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

on the pickup-page of the homepage of SD it reads in rather big letters 'every pickup is handmade in st.barbara, USA' or something like that. That alone is already such a HUGE selling point for many people. why change a winning team?!


Just take a look at history. charvel. They used to make great guitars in the USA. were bought by jackson, and charvel became an asia-made subbrand of jackson. after years, they went back to the USA, and it took years, again, to get their name back up as a USA-based company, and they're still kinda struggling to get as big as they used to be...and to make things worse, they decided to water down the line by making guitars in the USA and in Asia... its watering down the differentiation. You realy don't wanna go that route as a company. Differentiate the asia-line with a new name thats clearly associated with SD, but doesn't bare the (full) seymour duncan-moniker.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

I am British. I live in the UK. As far as I am concerned, the patriotism stance counts for nothing. The simplistic "home = good, overseas = crud" argument is bunk. (Just look at what that attitude did for the British motorcycle industry!) The combination of quality materials and skilled work(wo)manship should produce a good pickup, no matter where the factory is located.

Seymour Duncan already has a facility in Korea turning out the Duncan Designed range. To date, the consensus has been that these are not as good as the American production line models. The received wisdom is that the Antiquities are better than shop floor and that the Custom Shop products are the best of all.

Also, to date, the DD range has only been supplied to OEM guitar companies. I am in no doubt whatsoever that the DD range would find its own niche in the replacement pickup market place. Whether this would harm sales of the regular US shop floor production is another matter.

IMO, the business case for making the DD range freely available to all is a no-brainer.

 

[DeanSweden]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

because the people making the product just dont care as much as an american worker does.

that's the biggest load of bull**** I've read in this thread so far !

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

^ I'm choosing to believe he meant something like, "They might care just as much, but perhaps not for exactly all the same reasons."

 

[Wattage]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

I believe that offshore production could be a real good thing on an international level,
IF, and a real big IF, it means that all the SD products we love and know are STILL
manufactured in the US and that Globalization takes in quality local partnerships and markets.

Remember what Fender did in the 80's, tackle the "copiers" on their own turf!
Gibson soon followed with Orville and in both cases they dealt with the highest
quality manufacturers and marketeers available to produce product that is
coveted all over the world.

I really think the way foward for SD is expansion, seek new products and markets,
ABSOLUTELY maintain the range of MIA pickups, no qustion and seek partnerships
that will endear the SD brand to the local market.

For instance, we have many great pickup and guitar makers here in Australia, as in
many other first wold countries. What if SD collaborated with these companies and
locally produced for argument's sake "Mike Brierley" custom pickups for Orsmby
or Crossley, or even Maton guitars? ( Biggest guitar manufacturer in AUS BTW )

Firstly, aknowledgement by a respected player in the guitar parts world goes a long way,
but more importantly WE can have our own SD product locally made with all the benefits
for SD, the local market and indeed you guys in the States. You really need to hear
some of the boutique pickups that are being made OTHER than in the US.

The SD brand name is synonomous with the highest quality in aftermarket pickups and
a large part of that is that they are made where they are by the people that make them.
Do not diminish that perception in the market but do enhance the end user to manufacturer
relationship in your future dealings.

Lastly, we in AUS and Europe are paying WAY, WAY too much for your retail product.
It really is a joke when i can get the same pickup delivered to my door directly from
a US supplier at a third of the local retail price. This Evan is costing you sales and it's
only a tiny part of our market that is buying across the counter, the rest of the real
guitar nerds are importing directly from US suppliers.

Cheers, Will

See this is a much different view than you get from someone in NY but it makes a lot of sense anyway, hehe. I have been thinking about this thread a bit and comments I made earlier really reflect moving the whole of the company's manufacturing to a particular Asian country. As I think about it more and more I still feel it would take away from the company in a lot of ways that maybe hard data doesn't always show but that doesn't mean I would stop buying the product necessarily and as someone like Will shows it might make the company stronger in a lot of markets that they can't practically compete in currently. Overseas manufacture for overseas markets makes a lot of sense in that context.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Why is it that businesses are expected to expand and expand as much as possible? If you have a good thing going on a smaller scale, stick with it, I think. How much money does one really need to make?

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

Also, to date, the DD range has only been supplied to OEM guitar companies. I am in no doubt whatsoever that the DD range would find its own niche in the replacement pickup market place. Whether this would harm sales of the regular US shop floor production is another matter.

THey have been in Guitar Center for years now

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

THey have been in Guitar Center for years now

Isn't that the Duncan Performer line? (And aren't they kinda the same thing, just for retail aftermarket sales?)

 

[jeremy]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

i didnt read the other posts but it makes a huge difference. bascially i wouldnt buy them if they were made overseas.

i go out of my way to buy from locally owned stores and look at the label of just about everything i buy

 

[Usurper666]

Re: What is the Value of "Made In USA" for SD Pickups? (Part II)

If SD goes to overseas production I'll start buying EMGs instead, and I hate EMGs! Seriously, I have been a die-hard SD user for years and if you guys make the switch to overseas production I'll never buy another one of your products again, period.

Cheers,

CJ