what makes a good wood?

spule85

New member
so, a friend n i were talking today about what makes a good wood for guitars and what gives them there tonal properties. the reason the discussion came about is because he likes wood work, he does not play but was interested in a project of making a guitar, as an west aussy woods are expensive to buy.

my friend didnt realise the type of wood would greatly affect the sound of a guitar, and he was talking about some different woulds he has and would like to use, but i didnt think they would be appropriate for a guitar.... so what does make a good wood for a guitar??? i know WHAT woods ARE good, but why?
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

what wood does he have? it may just be useable anyways. either way, anything that's acoustically loud is decent. i don't know how acoustically loud a billet of would would be, so take that with a grain of salt. other than that, i don't knwo too much about the properties of wood other than dry wood is good wood, softer wood sounds meatier/softer/warmer, and harder wood sounds snappier/tighter/brighter. also, more glue should mean less resonant, despite the fact that most budget semi-hollows and hollow bodies are made with laminate tops/backs/sides with glue layered inbetween, and they're plenty resonant.
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

The proper selection of wood for an instrument is actually one of the more tedious processes. I´ll try to put it a bit into easier terms and not go too in depth, because this is actually quite the anal process when you want to do it right.

1. The wood needs structural stability: particularly on an electric, the wood has to hold up to some pretty heavy loads, on an acoustic the bracing does most of the work here, thereby allowing the use of spruce or cedar without the top buckling in seconds. This requires a certain density of the wood canules (wood is essentially a system of microscopic tubes) as wehh as inherent strength of the fibers themselves, or the stability won´t suffice and you´ll quickly wind up with an accordion when strung up ;)

2. the wood also needs to be dense enough to transmit vibrations effectively.

3. as a general rule you want wood that fulfuills criteria 1 and 2, but is still as light as possible, especially on an acoustic. The lighter the top, the easier it is to overcome the top´s inertia and get the guitar vibrating.

4. You want to avoid knotholes and similar imperfections in the wood grain because these can cause the semi radially expanding sound waves to be skewed off in "improper" directions making for problems with tonal response or causing sympathetic resonance issues.

5. it has to look good if it´s to be transparently finished, or the guitarist will never accept it.


1 and 2 essentially rule out most of the lightest woods such as Balsa and many coniferous species, but as we know spruce is still the standard for acoustic tops. But trust me, if it were possible to produce acoustics with Balsa or soft pine tops, it would be done, becasue that would geth the mass of the top as close to zero as possible. ;)

Assuming SRS meant "Denser" by harder and "Less dense" by softer his generalization on tonal response is a good rule of thumb. Density and hardness are related, but not the same. One is mass, one is a surface property more than anything else ;)

Rosewood for example is quite dense, with most of the tonal and structural properties that come with the territory, the primary reason it´s used on acoustic backs, and fingerboards. The back is unbraced and therefore needs to be able to hold it´s own, and the neck and fretboard are the most structurally taxed areas of the instrument. It´s still softer than few woods that are less dense, though, try to push your fingernail into rosewood and do the same with maple and you´ll see what I mean, the Rosewood is more likely to be scratched. The reason for rosewood´s attenuated highs compared to ebony or maple is the large amount of natural oils that stay in the wood for longer than any guitar has been around. but I´m going off on a tangent here...

It´s easy to make a structurally sound instrument some may now think, just take 20 pounds of Teak and ebony and it will ne so hard it will never collapse. And this is 100% true, but unfortunately that guitar is in reality more of a boat anchor than anything else (And considering that teak SINKS in water, that´s actually a good analogy :laugh2: )

Considering how many people have problems with a 7-8-9 pound les paul, 20-25 pounds is a bit too far on the chiropractor friendly side.

So we find ourselves forced to strike a balance between structural stability and mass reduction (Any engineers see any parallels to their daily work?;) ).

What after a few years /decades of experimentation was found to be ideal for most purposes were woods that kept most of the density of the heavy tropical woods but with more open pores and lighter canal structures. Woods such as Mahogany, Ash, Alder and Cherry. The heavy woods stayed on as load bearers, for example in the fretboards of acoustics because back then there were no truss rods, the only thing keeping the neck straight was the dryness and preparation of hte neck combined with this ultra stable slab of ebony or rosewood glued to the top. Alder for example was very commonly used for the necks of gut strung guitars (the direct forerunners of todays nylon-strung classicals) and many still use it. Maple on the other hand would simply be structural overkill at the cost of unnecessary mass, thereby lowering responsiveness.

Many woods that are used today in electric instrument were actually more accidents than anything else. IIRC first well documentedse of Maple, basswood and Poplar for guitars was b Leo Fender, and he did not choose woods for tonal properties but used what was easy and cheap to get. He wasn´t looking to build godly tone, but an instrument that could be rapidly and effectively mass produced, would seldom require repairs and would be reliable while offering tha maximum utility. Essentially the design philosophy of the AK47 applied to a musical instrument. ...
 
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Re: what makes a good wood?

....


But as a result of his efforts and many other often fruitless experiments such as the 80´s exotic wood aka. "be a man, play a boat anchor that pierces your eardrums" craze there is enough collectively gained experience that it is now possible to more or less be able to say from the get go whether a wood combionation even has a chance of working. Basswood for example was for the longest time regarded as inferior because it is structularrs less sound than other woods that were common at the time as well as hella soft. It took a bit for technology to come to the point where basswood could be safely used in guitars that were supposed to last more than a month. (That said I personally still regard basswood as a cheap and often ugly substitute for mahogany in most cases, but it does have it´s aplications like every other wood). Of course the more one orients themselves on the classic choices, the more likely it is that the end product will be usable ;)

And then there´s still the aspect of drying. Any wood that´s fresly felled will still have lots of "Juice" running through it, and this moisture will torpedo even the best laid plans of Luthiers and Laymen. The wood must be dried to a moisture content of approximately 50% relative humidity to ideally cope with more and less humid locations the instrument will face during it´s lifespan...

But that is most definitely another topic with the same depth, so it would probably be a good idea to start a different thread on that..
 
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Re: what makes a good wood?

It also depends on who you ask. Les Paul himself for instance was on the side of the more solid the wood, the less vibrations it would absorb, the more the strings would vibrate by themselves without losing energy.
However since we're all now used to the idea that wood is an integral part of the sound (so in a way we've gone back full circle to the acoustics/archtops!), we're putting up with the wood absorbing vibrations. Hence why we feel the wood would need to be very resonant and responsive: it'd transmit said absorbed vibrations back to the strings and help out.
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

Hmm... reading back I left about I think like half of what would be important to know, things like Rierre`s aforementioned resonance return, a factor that becomes very interesting after a certain mass has been reached as capitalizing on it properly will give the instrument the maximum inherent sustain.......

But then again, this isn´t a luthierie course per se, so that´s nto necessarily bad, and all to much mor may well be overkill for some...
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

what wood does he have? it may just be useable anyways. either way, anything that's acoustically loud is decent. i don't know how acoustically loud a billet of would would be, so take that with a grain of salt. other than that, i don't knwo too much about the properties of wood other than dry wood is good wood, softer wood sounds meatier/softer/warmer, and harder wood sounds snappier/tighter/brighter. also, more glue should mean less resonant, despite the fact that most budget semi-hollows and hollow bodies are made with laminate tops/backs/sides with glue layered inbetween, and they're plenty resonant.

Too dry is too dry. My fathers friend had to put his violin tone wood outside to get the moisture level higher. It's not about getting the wood as dry as possible, but getting the wood's moisture to the right level.

Also, if the glue used is hide glue, it will not make the wood resonate/ring/play any bit worse. the glue seams are so tiny compared to the size of the body that they won't matter at all to the sound.
The wood shouldn't be too hard or soft so that it is easy to work with. Also, soft wood gets damaged very easily.
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

Thanks for the post Zerb. As always it's good to see you on the forum. ;)

To hit the topic Pierre and Zerb hinted at....wood used also is going to have a lot to do with desired tonal effect. Many guitarists want the resonance, and want to feel the instrument vibrate, and ring etc etc etc. However the other school ot thought, as practiced by Alembic, is that the guitar should have minimal sympathetic accoustic vibrations and the wood should reflect the energy BACK into the string. Thus you end up with the ultra heavy ultra hard woods like walnut, purple heart etc.

Luke
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

Zerb please explain the use of Basswood with maple and why builders like Suhr refer to it as the holy grail of tone?
I remember him and other high end builders mention that it has less overtones and that is something GOOD. Does this mean that maybe it is an easier way of building without running into problems with the neck having different overtones again and not matching together so well? A shortcut to building?
Like a basswood maple top guitar will come out good 80% of the time but to get a mahogany maple top guitar to come out good it will take more matching, but when it matches well the basswood will be no match to its tonal properties?? is this safe to assume?

The way i describe basswood to my ears is that its tone has a very strong fundamental base if that makes any sense. It doesnt have more 'coloring' on top so to speak.

Is this what makes it easier to match up?

please explain if you can.

Do other woods just take more 'work' to get right?

cheers
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

he does not play but was interested in a project of making a guitar, as an west aussy woods are expensive to buy.

You lads in Australia have a huge selection of trees to choose from, many of which may have never been used for instruments, at least not in the USA. Eucalyptus & Acacias, of which you have about 1,000 species of each native to Australia, have a tremendous variation in grain, density, weight, etc. I'd be pretty excited to be able to try some. Consider what Zerberus said and look at websites for ideas and info (Warmouth, etc), and narrow down your choices with your local woods.

The traditional "magic" tone woods were selected decades ago because they were available & inexpensive at the time in the US. Supply reliability was the driving force. They never even tried the vast majority of trees. There may be some that as as good, or better. This is a great opportunity.
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

The traditional "magic" tone woods were selected decades ago because they were available & inexpensive at the time in the US. Supply reliability was the driving force. They never even tried the vast majority of trees. There may be some that as as good, or better. This is a great opportunity.

Righto, I normally go for traditional woods because I'm looking for a traditional type of tone, but as we've seen with Brazilian Rosewood availability as the traditional woods become rare the price flies up through the roof and substitutes must be found.

Luke
 
Re: what makes a good wood?

you never can predict if a piece of wood will be good or not, by its type, age, dry period
and number of pieces. you will here its sounds when you knock at it.
 
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