What makes you sound unique?

[Securb]

 

[Aceman]

@Phantasmagoria

So Phant, have you ever actually had your ears checked or examined? Asking for a friend. A lot of friends actually...

 

[jeremy]

the day is young, i have faith this wont make top five by the end of the day.

that said, i feel like this is turning into the "playing better drunk" conversation. theory wont hurt you if you know how to use it and can be a huge boon to your playing, not having a lot of theory doesnt mean you cant play your ass off

 

[weepingminotaur]

I think there is a certain amount of talking past each other that happens when theory comes up, in that non-theory players sometimes think knowing theory means thinking more about what you're playing at runtime, which is not actually the case frequently (maybe not at all). In its best form, theory allows you to play with less intellectual effort and more fluidly, because you have internalized concepts by committing them to muscle memory and situational use.

Analogies are always risky, but I'll offer one anyway: no one chastises a defensive back for studying film on enemy receivers, practicing spot drops based on the defensive coordinator's scheme, and understanding why, for example, outside leverage is key in a certain cover call (because you have safety help over the middle but not near the sidelines, so if you're going to be beaten, better to get beaten toward centre field, where you have help!). All of this physical and mental preparation allows a good DB to go out and play effortlessly, without thinking.

 

[Chistopher]

I think there is a certain amount of talking past each other that happens when theory comes up, in that non-theory players sometimes think knowing theory means thinking more about what you're playing at runtime, which is not actually the case frequently (maybe not at all). In its best form, theory allows you to play with less intellectual effort and more fluidly, because you have internalized concepts by committing them to muscle memory and situational use.

Analogies are always risky, but I'll offer one anyway: no one chastises a defensive back for studying film on enemy receivers, practicing spot drops based on the defensive coordinator's scheme, and understanding why, for example, outside leverage is key in a certain cover call (because you have safety help over the middle but not near the sidelines, so if you're going to be beaten, better to get beaten toward centre field, where you have help!). All of this physical and mental preparation allows a good DB to go out and play effortlessly, without thinking.

Also sports and musics have the same concept of experimentation at practice, but stick to what you are good at on game day. If you never run a specific play, but then it's called on gameday, its going to be a mess. In other words, you don't try something in front of the crowds unless you have it down to where you are unable to mess up

 

[jeremy]

i often dont have it down on gameday, its a spur of the moment decision even what song we might play sometimes. one blues rock band ive been in for 15 years has basically never had a set list and used to play 50+ shows a year for most of that time. singer calls the song, we fall in, and it goes where it goes. mix of originals and covers by the singers, keeps ya on your toes for sure

 

[weepingminotaur]

I've definitely played in situations where I didn't have it all the way down on gameday, but they were jams where I had at most one or two brief rehearsals with the people I was playing with. Just how it goes sometimes.

 

[Securb]

not having a lot of theory doesnt mean you cant play your ass off

No one has disagreed with that statement. There are tons of masters of the instrument who know zero theory. We all know that. The premise most are pushing back on is that theory will, in some way, diminish your playing.

 

[ehdwuld]

I'm not saying theory is bad but.....

It does sometimes get in my way when writing

For example I know that the leading tone should resolve to the tonic

So a V should go to a I
But....
If i am building tension it could go somewhere else

My ear wants that resolution
My brain wants that resolution
My song wants something else

 

[Securb]

I'm not saying theory is bad but.....

It does sometimes get in my way when writing

Theory is a suggestion, not hard and fast rules. When building the base or chord structure of a song, I rarely use theory. It is all about what I hear in my head and in my ears. More times than not, I know where traditional theory should lead me, and I go in the opposite direction. It is when I have to go back and build melodies, bass lines or leads over these arrangemnts when theory is a huge help in navigating the arrangements. And a lot of times that is not the answer, but it will always point me in the right direction; the rest is trial, error, and improvisation.

 

[GuitarStv]

I'm not saying theory is bad but.....

It does sometimes get in my way when writing

For example I know that the leading tone should resolve to the tonic

So a V should go to a I
But....
If i am building tension it could go somewhere else

My ear wants that resolution
My brain wants that resolution
My song wants something else

If it sounds good, it is.

Theory is there to help you get to what you want to hear faster. It's like a bunch of rules of thumb that help you get there most of the time. It should never be used in place of actually listening to the music.

(There's also no theory law that says your V has to resolve to a I . . . it works great into a ii or vi too. Or if you're getting into modal interchange it can move nicely into a bVI, iv, or bVII. And then there's the whole V of V thing that you can do where you just start going crazy with chords. Lotsa suggestions, no restrictions.)

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Ok so there are guys who bend notes in Jazz. It's something that I still would say is not super-prevalent in the genre, so I'm guessing they're the exception rather than the rule. They also tend to pick all their notes individually. Is that a hard and fast rule? I would'nt know 'cause it's (Jazz) not my thing.
I noticed no one said anything about classical guys ( I got that one right. huh? ) and who could have a dorkier approach more steeped in nothing but theory & book learning than those guys

If you guys don't find trying to apply theory to your playing in real time (good luck w/ that at any kind of serious speed ..& I honestly mean that) restrictive & distracting, more power to you. It's just that that's not baggage I need to bog myself down with when I improvise (the bottom line being "I do just fine without it" ..so really...why?)

Improv can be super simple & just about the melody....

...but having a bit of feel and using one's ears, adding embellishments, some quirkiness/individuality, accentuation, vibrato etc (ie. feel) imo is what makes it sound nice. Sorry but immersing yourself in super-thick books of theory (or even pamphlets) can't/does'nt teach you "feel".

I can't tell you the amount of players I've heard who will string together dozens of arpeggio's and pick faster than a buzzing bee, throw in every generic technical lick you can imagine ..and you just know those dudes have sat around for days and nights working out every note & arp from books & instruction videos, so they can play it "clean" and perfect and then when they have to hold or bend an extended note at the end of a bar before launching into the next flurry of arpeggio's, it grates on your ears how terrible their vibrato/bending is 'cause they are all about theory & no feel. I'm just saying it happens more than y'all care to admit and yeah, I'd term that 'detrimental'.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I just think there's a false dichotomy going on here: knowing theory doesn't mean one's playing is inherently less emotional, not knowing theory doesn't mean one is copying George Thorogood. Studying music doesn't necessarily hamper feel, ignoring it doesn't mean you're being more real. Feelings and brains can exist inside the same solo.

There are crappy guitarists in every approach to the instrument. There are great guitarists in every approach to the instrument. Any tool is only as good as the guitarist wielding it.

Stereotypes suck. Avoid them.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I just think there's a false dichotomy going on here: knowing theory doesn't mean one's playing is inherently less emotional, not knowing theory doesn't mean one is copying George Thorogood. Studying music doesn't necessarily hamper feel, ignoring it doesn't mean you're being more real. Feelings and brains can exist inside the same solo.

There are crappy guitarists in every approach to the instrument. There are great guitarists in every approach to the instrument. Any tool is only as good as the guitarist wielding it.

Stereotypes suck. Avoid them.

Hey maybe I'm a bit jaded 'cause of all the shit I used to catch around here just for refusing to come around to the general concensuss that I should accept that I needed theory from books in my life so I could improve.

 

[weepingminotaur]

I just think there's a false dichotomy going on here: knowing theory doesn't mean one's playing is inherently less emotional, not knowing theory doesn't mean one is copying George Thorogood. Studying music doesn't necessarily hamper feel, ignoring it doesn't mean you're being more real. Feelings and brains can exist inside the same solo.

There are crappy guitarists in every approach to the instrument. There are great guitarists in every approach to the instrument. Any tool is only as good as the guitarist wielding it.

Stereotypes suck. Avoid them.

Spot on, but especially the part in bold, which is a part of how I teach first-year students how to read literature. Thinking and feeling are not mutually incompatible activities.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Well, this guy begs to differ @ 2:30

Just saying ...if it's the case for you. Might not be the case for me

 

[Securb]

They also tend to pick all their notes individually. Is that a hard and fast rule? I would'nt know 'cause it's (Jazz) not my thing.

Chord soloing is very popular in Jazz and incrediblly hard to do. Give it a try.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Not crazy about the way it sounds..

I like my solo's to sound like zis...

 

[Securb]

I noticed no one said anything about classical guys ( I got that one right. huh? ) and who could have a dorkier approach more steeped in nothing but theory & book learning than those guys

No man you were wrong there as well. There is a lot of improv with classical guitar and many books about it. I have seen some amazing varriations on themes and classical trios tear it up going off the beaten path.

 

[Chistopher]

You can get by with or without theory. You can't get by without practicing to a drummer or metronome