What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

[mannydingo]

Hi, guys. second post here ever after a long time from the first one. So I bought an SH-4 pickup and put it in the bridge of my Ibanez RG2EX2. It sounds great but lacks a tad bit in the gain department for my needs and equipment. I would like to stick as close as possible to this amount of gain while adding just a touch more gain. I have an Ibanez GAX70(that's a GIO) and the bridge pickup there sounds like what I want but want to keep that cheap pickup in that guitar. That guitar doesn't require me to raise the gain on my equipment and that's the way I want to keep it.

What SD or non-SD pickup would you guys recommend? It's not for metal. It's for late 70's rock but not that bluesy early 70's rock. I'm afraid moving one step up in the SD line-up may give me more gain than I want thus making it difficult to "clean up" as I lower the volume knob. Know what I mean?

 

[SabbathFan0220]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

Chances are, a magnet swap would do the trick. Your GAX70 probably has a ceramic magnet in the bridge. Right now, your JB has a Alinco 5. I would swap the A5 for eitiher an A8 or a ceramic.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

But woudlnt a magnet swap change the fundamental tone of the pickup? Am i wrong but isnt the duncan custom just a JB with a ceramic pickup? Can you just raise the JB and get a bit more output out of it? (side note pickups dont have gain but they do have output not being a jerk just a clarification)

Lots of pickups you could try but your probably going to move away from the sound of the JB to one degree or another.

 

[whatshisname]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

What kind of amp are you using? I've always found the JB to be perfect, for a '70s rock tone.

Have you tried raising it closer to the strings? Just a small adjustment may give you what you need.

 

[Despair]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

But woudlnt a magnet swap change the fundamental tone of the pickup? Am i wrong but isnt the duncan custom just a JB with a ceramic pickup? Can you just raise the JB and get a bit more output out of it? (side note pickups dont have gain but they do have output not being a jerk just a clarification)

Lots of pickups you could try but your probably going to move away from the sound of the JB to one degree or another.

Custom is 43AWG. JB is 44AWG. Very different winds. It's the Distortion that is a JB with a thick ceramic magnet. Custom is a normal thickness ceramic, and a very different sound, surprisingly like a hot PAF for a ceramic pickup.

The Custom is awesome for 70s rock, but doesn't sound much like the JB. It's warm and punchy with great cut. But doesn't have the screaming harmonics and wailing lead tone of the JB. Neither does it have the loose low end the JB runs afoul of in some guitars.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

Custom is 43AWG. JB is 44AWG. Very different winds. It's the Distortion that is a JB with a thick ceramic magnet. Custom is a normal thickness ceramic, and a very different sound, surprisingly like a hot PAF for a ceramic pickup.

The Custom is awesome for 70s rock, but doesn't sound much like the JB. It's warm and punchy with great cut. But doesn't have the screaming harmonics and wailing lead tone of the JB. Neither does it have the loose low end the JB runs afoul of in some guitars.

That was my point. Just suggesting a mag swap is still gonna move him away from the sound of a JB atleast to 1 degree or another. Unless hes willing to change the tone a bit but to me a JB is a JB but that might just be my ears.

 

[Stef]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

What SD or non-SD pickup would you guys recommend? It's not for metal. It's for late 70's rock but not that bluesy early 70's rock.

super distortion

 

[yellowv]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

I say tweak your amp to work for you with the JB and forget about the Gio. $1000 Ibbys have garbage stock pickups, but they are 100 times better than a Gio's stock pickup. The JB should be perfect for what you need if you just work with it. Trying to EQ the same as that junk in your Gio isn't going to work with any decent pickup. What is your amp?

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

If you really want to switch pups, the PATB-1 will seem like it has a bit more gain than the JB and have more low mid content, a fatter sound overall. It will seem more in the same ballpark of the stock Ibby pups, but actually sound good.

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

super distortion

+1

 

[mannydingo]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

Wow, a lot of replies and fast. I can't believe this many responses on just a pickup forum. Anyway, I should have mentioned the amp. I don't use a guitar amp of any sort whether for recording or live play. I am a strictly direct through a multi-effects modeler kind of guy. Yes, I know this is not 99 perecent of you guys. However, if a cheap Gio pickup can do it, then a better sounding and better quality pickup can do it also. The Super Distortion did come to mind seeing I'm a Boston(band not city)junkie. By the way, first two albums is what I'm talking about here. Tom Scholz used a Super Distortion and I installed one in a guitar 10 years ago. Don't know how it would work with this guitar. I'm afraid of too much gain for the modeler/mfx unit with this guitar and that pickup.

Binnerscot, I will read up on your suggestion of the PATB-1.

Oh, the pickup is pretty close to the strings but I guess it's got room for just a bit more. I will try as close as possible without string interference and see what difference that makes. Thanks for a lot of good input you guys.

 

[Franknfilms]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

For a JB with more gain here are your options:
-Turn up gain on amp
-Use clean boost pedal

To change the way your JB sounds and increase output, swap to a A8 or ceramic magnet.

If you just want to buy a pickup with more gain, you could go duncan distortion, but that is just a jb with a thick ceramic magnet. At this point you'll want to look at dimarzio offerings like the aforementioned super distortion.

If you want more gain, but still good clean tones? Well, I would just leave the pickup alone and get the extra gain from amp or pedal because a ceramic mag in that JB will hurt your cleans a bit.

 

[mannydingo]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

I can't use the gain on the amp because, as I mentioned on my last post, I don't use guitar amps. I run my rig as follows:

Guitar>Digitech GSP1101>PA (or keyboard combo amp in the bedroom or some practices/rehearsals)

Now the modeler has gain to increase, however, I would have to switch to a higher gain amp simulation. Those other amp sims will change the amp sound for the patches I'm using. Those are fine for other sounds playing in a cover band but won't work for the sounds/songs I use this patch for.

 

[Despair]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

The GSP1101 has pedal sims. Sticking a virtual overdrive, clean boost or compressor in front of the amp sim is likely to work better than thrashing the input with a clean boost pedal, on a modeller. And it'll achieve a similar tonal effect, without having to spend any money.

I'd start by trying a low gain setting on the pedal sim, use the output level to push the amp sim a little.

 

[mannydingo]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

The GSP1101 has pedal sims. Sticking a virtual overdrive, clean boost or compressor in front of the amp sim is likely to work better than thrashing the input with a clean boost pedal, on a modeller. And it'll achieve a similar tonal effect, without having to spend any money.

I'd start by trying a low gain setting on the pedal sim, use the output level to push the amp sim a little.

The amp sim I'm using is at max gain and the TS sim is also at max drive. You cannot have another pedal sim on at the same time and I REFUSE to add a real pedal or any other unit when I know, from the GIO experience, that a pickup within the guitar will solve the problem without carrying around and connecting another unit. Yeah, I've owned other mfx/modeler units that allowed two distortion/overdrive pedals at once but this one doesn't. The sound on the others, was not as good as on this unit for the money.

 

[Despair]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

Well, a different pickup wont sound exactly the same as the JB. Closest you'll get is a custom shop overwound JB, and those'll cost around $160 last I looked. And will be a bit darker.

I've never played a GSP1101, so can't really recommend pedal changes. On some amp sims you can get away with turning all the EQ up a notch to get a bit more gain.

Assuming you can't get there without changing your tone on your amp, and you aren't willing to set up separate patches for each guitar, I'll get back to pickups now...

Is the question purely loudness, or do you want a tonal shift like more bass or broader EQ, rather than the upper mid focus of the JB?

I have a PATB-1b in my RG570, but it's a floating early Edge vibrato, so the guitars wont sound quite the same. It's likely to be a bit tighter and thicker in your guitar. But I find that for solos it can hang with the JB, and I like it far better for heavy rhythms, riffs and cleans. It's definitely higher output, I went from a JB that I hated in my guitar (great for solos, mediocre to useless for anything else) to the PATB-1b.

 

[mannydingo]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

Well, a different pickup wont sound exactly the same as the JB.

It doesn't have to. It can sound good, yet different. If so, then that's ok.

Is the question purely loudness, or do you want a tonal shift like more bass or broader EQ, rather than the upper mid focus of the JB?

Maybe I should get down to the nitty, as well as the gritty. Take the song Rock and Roll Band by Boston. On the part playing immediately where the singing starts, you get single notes getting played on the 5th and 6th strings. They're that kind of walking notes kind of thing. They run smoothly from one fret to the next with my cheapo guitar pickup. With the SH-4(JB), they don't have enough oomph in the gain area and so the notes kind of are too independent of each other. Try to imagine one smooth sound going "ma ra ma ra ma ra ma ra" and the other going "plank plank plank plank plank plank plank". Notice how even with your mouth talking how you can smoothly pronounce the first ones but it's harsh and choppy to do the same with the "planks" ??? I know I just made a fool of myself trying to explain that but I don't know how else to answer your question.

I have a PATB-1b in my RG570

I looked into that pickup on the SD site. When it mentioned having more of a hi-fi sound my eyebrows went up. However, might it be too much gain. Maybe not. Another thing is that the guitar in question is non-vibrato and the SD site mentions it's for trem guitars. My main guitar, a Carvin I obtained recently, is even lower in the gain department. It may work with the Floyd Rose on that one. The DiMarzio Super Distortion is still now a strong consideration.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

I really, really, really like the PATB-1 in a trem equipped axe for all of the tones you're liking. I have an old JB from the 80's, and I liked the PATB-1 better, and I tried them both in the same guitar. I don't know the specs of your guitar, but I have heard good reports of the PATB in regular hardtail guitars.

The PATB is better for crunchy rhythm, nice and sweet (but articulate) for leads and does a great clean tone. I record through a Boss GT-6 and I can hear the difference in pickups. The JB is a great pickup, but it is a bit picky about the guitar it's in. However, once you find the right guitar it's hard to be the JB for 70's and 80's rock.

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

I have a PATB-1b in my RG570.

I looked into that pickup on the SD site. When it mentioned having more of a hi-fi sound my eyebrows went up. However, might it be too much gain. Maybe not. Another thing is that the guitar in question is non-vibrato and the SD site mentions it's for trem guitars. My main guitar, a Carvin I obtained recently, is even lower in the gain department. It may work with the Floyd Rose on that one. The DiMarzio Super Distortion is still now a strong consideration.

It won't be too much; too much for your purposes would be the PATB-2 (flame thrower of the highest order). You can safely ignore the trem references...left over marketing from the late '80s and early '90s.

I have had all pups mentioned here, and the DM SuperD would be lowest on my list - never liked that one much, very bland.

 

[Despair]

Re: What pickup for SLIGHTLY higher gain?

The PATB-1b seems like a safe bet, especially since you have a second guitar that's a likely home for it, if it doesn't do what you want in the first.

The PATB-1b is higher output than the JB. It's also more dynamic, and responds better to volume and tone control.

It's got more highs, but they aren't all in one peak in the upper midrange like the JB, so it actually is smoother.

The JB has wilder harmonics and varying response in the upper register that makes it exciting for solos. The PATB-1b is smoother and more even... But responds more wildly to pick articulation, so you can get varying response another way, and far more controllably.

It's also tighter and more balanced than the JB. It crunches in a way the JB doesn't have the balance for, yet on the same amp/patch single note lines sing like no other pickup I've used. Usually you get brash crunch or singing leads, not both.

Don't know if you've listened to the Custom 5 or Custom Custom any, but I find I can wander between those tones if I set the volume around 85%. Tone up, more like C5. Tone around 75%, mid-80s EVH comes over to say hi.

The Parallel Axis design is odd, it doesn't behave like you'd expect for the resistance. PATB-1b is 15.7K... but a larger coil, I'm reasonably sure it's 43AWG (coils more full with wire than they'd be with 44, also the resemblances to CC/C5 tones), where a conventional coil would usually be 44AWG at that resistance. But despite being fairly high output, it's incredibly dynamic.

The polepiece design has a lot of advantages. Less string pull, longer sustain, enhanced harmonic response, sweeter treble, and terrific articulation. Transients are a bit less harsh, yet it doesn't lack in attack if you dig in with the pick. Notes bloom, oddly tuby response.

I can get pretty much everything I liked about the JB out of it, plus a ridiculous variety more.

[Note: I'm not knocking the JB in other guitars, I love it in other body woods, and it's more flexible if the wood fills out it's lows and highs a bit, rather than emphasizing it's already awesome mids.]