What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Texas Swamp

Texas Swamp

New member
My head (Mesa 50 caliber plus) is in need of a retubing and I am planning to do SED Winged C 6L6's in the power section. I can't decide between the gold plated 12AX7EH or doing something fancy like the Mullard reissue 12AX7. The thing is the latter I feel probably works better with guys looking for vintage tone and one of my favorite guitarists, Wino, uses the Winged C and gold plated 12AX7EH combo and he sounds great.

Should I check out Tung-Sol for the preamp or JJ's for both the preamp and power section?
 
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Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Texas Swamp said:
My amp is in need of a retubing and I am already doing Svetlana Winged C 6L6's in the power section. I can't decide between the gold plated 12AX7EH or doing something fancy like the Mullard reissue 12AX7. The thing is the latter I feel probably works better with guys looking for vintage tone and one of my favorite guitarists, Wino, uses the Winged C and gold plated 12AX7EH combo and he sounds great.

Should I check out Tung-Sol or JJ's?
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I like EH's when it comes to new production tubes. They have good definition and don't seem too bright or too dark. Very similar in construction to the new production tung-sols, and the tung-sols I think sound pretty similar.
JJ's are OK I think, but when I've used the 12ax7s it feels like there's this rough kind of distortion when pushed, especially in the bass. I think I used one as a phase inverter for a while and thought that was fine.

In all seriousness, look around at vintage tubes. Ebay is an easy start, just ask questions if you think you've found something good. There's a ton of em out there for low prices ($15-$50 for decent single 12ax7s), and most of em sound noticeably smoother and more detailed than new production stuff, especially when you overdrive them.
I like japanese 12ax7's of all sorts (especially matsus#ita. for some reason the profanity filtering likes to mess with the name matsush*ta. go figure.) and lately I'm digging the raytheon I got. Raytheons have a good bass response, like what the JJ wishes it was. I've heard good things about sylvania and RCA. Didn't really like the GE I tried.

Oh yeah and gold pins are more for audiophile guys wih tube stereo equipment. it's meant to imrpove the flow of electrons (and resist oxidation, i heard?) but ask anyone here and I think 8/10 or better will tell you that gold pins isn't necessary.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

I had a mesa 50 cal. combo. EH is good for the preamp tubes because they handle the cascading gain thing well - one of the best tubes for chunky overdrive. Gold plugs are a waste of money.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

I've had Mesa and JJ tubes in my Mark IV... not exactly a Caliber but not too far off either. I think you'll like the EHX pres. I had them in my Peavey Triple X head before I replaced them with JJs and was pretty happy with that sound. They also worked well in a 5150 combo and head (replacing Sovtek), though I've heard some people say they sound stiff. As always, YMMV.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Haven't owned a Mesa in a while but my Zinky's will have as much or more gain. The Mullards are nice in some amps but the long plates will make them more likly to be microphonic. The JJ's have been dull and lifeless in most amps I have tried them in and with a Boogies tendency towards mud at high gain I wouldn't go there.
Bruce Zinky swears by the EH preamp tubes and that is what a new Zinky will ship with. I personally like the tone of Tung Sols a little better and that is what is in my Velvet.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

I'm not sure how close you're going to get to Wino's tones with the Mesa but I've used both the JJ's, EH gold plates, Mullards and Tung Sol in my Electric. I prefer the Tung Sol over the others. That's just my preference in one amp though. I'd stay away from JJ 12AX7. As stated already they seem dull and lifeless to me too.

I think Wino is still using Sunn Model T's. He also biases them on the hot side to get his tone from them giving them more dynamics but a shorter power tube lifespan.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Tung-Sol in the gain stages, JJ ecc803 (long plates) or mullard RI for the phase inverter, whatever in the reverb & effects loop. Unfortunately, I don't know what the positions are, but check on the boogie board, I'm sure it's come up.

If you can afford it Tungsrams in the gain stages and a Raytheon LP in the PI do it like nobody's business, the TS/JJ combo I listed is pretty good though, and a lot cheaper.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

raytheon in the PI FTW
raytheons from old organs can be had for cheap and aren't too bad in either preamp spot on my amp. I do use it in my PI now.
haven't tried tungsrams. I've heard they make excellent el84s though.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

I don't own a Mesa, but in my JCM 800 I always use JJ ECC83 in V1, and Sovtek 12AX7WB in V2 and V3(PI). I used a VERY strong EH 12ax7 i got, and after 2 1/2 months I pulled it out and tested it, and it was so weak, it was pretty much useless. So I stay away from EH for now on, and stick to JJ in my 800 (sounds like heaven) or Tung-sol or TAD high grades in my Laney TT50H. Cheers

For power section my 800 uses a pair of vintage RFT EL34's, which sound amazing and alittle brighter than the Winged C Svetlana's that i'm using in my Laney. I've also tried the TAD EL34's, and liked them quite well, they lacked alittle bit of lowend, but had a really sweet tone.
 
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Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

There's good and bad tubes from every manufacturer, and you probably just got a bad EH tube. I'd recommend giving them another shot some time.
Nice on the RFT el34s, I've heard those are great. I'll keep those in mind for when I get an el34 amp. Hopefully very soon :)
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Maybe your right FuseG4. I will try them again eventually. I wasn't in love with the sound either though, alittle bright for an 800... The JJ takes some of the high end down, and makes it pretty nasty sounding, I love it ! Since I run my presence and treble VERRY high, alittle darker tube really compliments my sound.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Invader09 said:
Maybe your right FuseG4. I will try them again eventually. I wasn't in love with the sound either though, alittle bright for an 800... The JJ takes some of the high end down, and makes it pretty nasty sounding, I love it ! Since I run my presence and treble VERRY high, alittle darker tube really compliments my sound.
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Ah, in that case you're probably set. The EH is maybe towards the brighter side of what I call a balanced tube.
old raytheons are what I use for a tube with a lil more girth in the bass. It's like a JJ but smoother. I've got one in the PI of my night train now but every once in awhile I swap it back into v1 for a lil thicker sound.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

Early 60s Baldwin/Sylvania 12AX7 and 12AU7 are the best tubes overall that I have ever tried or used. They sound like Mullards and are low noise military spec. For organ applications, this is a must, no one wants to hear an audible hiss in between passages and they last forever. The clarity or the Baldwin AU7's is one of the best out there for any price and the biting gain is just enough to add the drive but no brightness or muddiness

On a side note, I have sold many to members of this forum and a few other forums to rave reviews. Judging from repeat buyers, and my dwindiling inventory, many ears agree

Gold plated is just snobbery, you can't hear an audible difference in most cases and even then, it is minimal which quickly becomes un-noticeable as volume increases

A Mesa is going to be buzzy no matter what you put into it, you might get minimal differences but in the end, a Mesa sounds like a Mesa
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

those baldwin are smooth tubes good for the v1, so many people use the newer junk! you have to experiment with the older tubes and make sure they test strong and you wont go back!
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

With respect to the Tung-Sol, I stuck one in V1 of my Mark IV with V2-V5 as JJs, and I found the Tung-Sol sucked a lot of gain from the amp as well as making it a bit darker than the JJ. I swapped it for the JJ in V3 and my amp is where I like it now.

That said I think it sounded good, just too low-gain for my taste. After listening to some of Wino's stuff on the MySpace I feel like it would get you there, but Tung-Sols are also a bit pricier than JJs so I would recommend getting one Tung-Sol and the rest JJ for the preamp.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

some tubes will sound better in different spots then others prob cause the gain factor and type of tube.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

ken361 said:
some tubes will sound better in different spots then others prob cause the gain factor and type of tube.
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yeah every amp is different, and so are people's ears. The trick for me so far is to just talk to people, find out what they like, try it, and experiment. Worse case is you hock your tube on ebay and maybe you'll take a small loss. Worth if to discover what tubes you like, IMO
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

I haven't noticed a lack of gain from any Tung-Sols, but they're still made by new sensor, so maybe you got a bad one, same with the EH. TS are usually in chinese territory with their gain.

Tungsrams are basically cheaper Mullards, FWIW.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

King IzzO))) said:
I haven't noticed a lack of gain from any Tung-Sols, but they're still made by new sensor, so maybe you got a bad one, same with the EH. TS are usually in chinese territory with their gain.
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Yeah, I suppose that's a possibility. I was a little surprised that it wasn't what I expected it to be. It was still nice and thick, but swapping it for a JJ made a world of metal difference.
 
Re: What preamp tubes for the Mesa?

They definitely are brighter than JJ's. Like anything else, it's all in the ear of the player, maybe it just wasn't what you wanted to hear.
 
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