What should I know about tremolos?

[GuitarStv]

I've been checking out a lot of shred type music lately and have started gassing for a trem equipped guitar to play around with. I've always stuck with hard tail guitars because trems seemed like they would be a headache to keep in tune properly and would break strings all the time. What should I know, and what do I need to get one that stays in tune? Is a locking nut a requirement? Do I need a floyd rose trem? What's decent out there that I can find for cheap?

 

[jcthejester13]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I am a bigsby fan myself. I wouldn't say it is at all a requirement, but a well cut and lubed nut and locking tuners is a big plus on the bigs tele and JM. I love my trem bars, but I also don't play shredding riffs either. I guess I recommend trems a lot simply because I feel it is another element you can add into your music.

My JM hasn't fallen out of tune yet and it hasn't snapped any strings from tremolo. Then again, I haven't had it for all too long so it may not be as stable as I am hoping in the future.

 

[marvar]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I've been checking out a lot of shred type music lately and have started gassing for a trem equipped guitar to play around with. I've always stuck with hard tail guitars because trems seemed like they would be a headache to keep in tune properly and would break strings all the time. What should I know, and what do I need to get one that stays in tune? Is a locking nut a requirement? Do I need a floyd rose trem? What's decent out there that I can find for cheap?

Well, I haven't exactly been checking out shred music, but, I've found myself with 3 trem guitars just in the last year.
A re-worked Washburn N2 w/lic Floyd Rose
A PRS Santana with trem
A Epiphone Wildkat w/Bigsby
so now I'm learning about all three types. Although I do have extensive experience with the FR from early band days. But, I had not owned a trem guitar in at least 20 yrs.
The PRS and N2 aren't a problem at all, with a bit of graphite on the saddles and nut at string change time. Make sure all points where the string touches are smooth.
The Bigsby is a whole 'nuther animal- I"m still working with that one. I'm not sure you can much with them anyway, just don't push it too hard, use it for trills and surf type stuff.

 

[lex666]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

My experience with trem guitars are with Floyds, FRL, and Fender tremolos - all of them float.

That's the benefit of trems IMO - you can bend up or down.

Headaches you'll encounter are: set up, tuning, and string breaking or slipping.

Setting it up is a PITA.

Tuning a floater is a PITA.

If a string breaks or slips its a PITA.

Otherwise, the Floyd and Fender systems work well - once set up properly.

 

[El CHupacabra]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

#1: They're VIBRATO, not tremolo. Tremolo is rapid change in volume (like you hear that wavering slide guitar in country songs).
#2: They're too much trouble than what they're worth.

 

[GoDrex]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I think you need a Floyd or Kahler if you're really going to be doing some extreme whammy bar tricks. Without a locking nut, any guitar with a bar is going to slip out of tune to some degree.

I really like the Callaham vintage strat bridge I have on my strat. It's great for moderate use and strings don't break with it.

 

[marvar]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

#1: They're VIBRATO, not tremolo. Tremolo is rapid change in volume (like you hear that wavering slide guitar in country songs).
#2: They're too much trouble than what they're worth.

I agree with point #1:
just as vibrato in most amps is really tremolo- but over the years they 2 terms have become synonymous, thanks mostly to old Leo I suppose.
But FRs aren't marketed as Floyd Rose vibratos- it's: "The Floyd Rose Tremolo system"
http://www.floydrose.com/originaltremolo.html
As far as #2- personal preference.

 

[SabbathFan0220]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I think before you start shopping around, you need to decide how you plan to use it. Are you thinking of a trem to give a slight 'wobble' or to full out dive bomb?

Another decision to make first is floating vs. dive only. Floating will let you change the pitch in both directions, while a dive only trem will only let you lower the pitch. The floating setup is less stable (that's the trade off), but if you plan on doing Dimebag squeals, you need to be able to pull the bar up

If you're listening to shred, chances are you want something with a lot of room to dive and something that floats, which means you're probably looking at Floyd or Kahler. Both will require a locking nut to stay in tune.

In general, the more "tricks" a trem unit can do, the less stable it is, and the more of a pain it will be to change strings and set it up.

 

[Grandturk]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

IMO, once setup, a Floyd (a proper, real Floyd) is one of the most stable and easiest to maintain bridges period. Full string changes can be done in sub-5 minute times, no string stretching required.

I don't even abuse the bar that much - about what you would be realistically able to do with a well setup vintage-strat trem - basically wide up and down vibrato.

 

[Koreth]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

IMO, once setup, a Floyd (a proper, real Floyd) is one of the most stable and easiest to maintain bridges period. Full string changes can be done in sub-5 minute times, no string stretching required.

This has not been my experience with a double locking floating setup. New strings stretch when first put under tension, it's just the nature of the beast. I've found that combining this this stretching action with a floating bridge is asking to have to make numerous adjustments to the fine tuning, and sometimes bridge height/angle over the first couple weeks of string life as the strings and bridge settle.

However, every time I've blocked the bridge during string changes, stretched each individual string until stretching doesn't change pitch anymore, and allowed the guitar to settle overnight before locking the nut and making the final fine tuning adjustments, tuning is very stable over the life of the strings. I don't think I've ever had to tweak a string's tuning more than 10 cents or so, despite whammy abuse.

Setup can be a PITA, as the guitar has to be tuned to pitch before any bridge angle, height, action, intonation and neck relief adjustments can be made, and any changes to any one of those can throw the guitar out of tuning again. But once properly set up, a quality Floyd-type bridge is very stable.

 

[DLT]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

Gimme a hardtail anyday over one with a vibrator bar. I have never played a guitar with a vibrato that did not go out of tune when used.

On the other hand...if I owned one of Guitar Shorty's G&L guitars, then I would have a different point of view. He can bring that sucker all the way to the body several times and he never has to touch his tuners. No locking nut either!

Go figure.

 

[BlueSnMettle]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

Yo Dan,

I got me a Jeff Beck Strat #75 W/roller nut. This guitar stays in tune like a MOFO. And while she's in tune she sounds like pure magic, thank you
Ant's & a saucy, aggressive Texas Hot in the bridge. Mmm Mmm Mmm.


Peace,

Darrin

 

[Aceman]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

what should you know? That the only people who use them are wankers and that real men have more than enough technique and style to not need them. They are a crutch and short of Jimi Hendrix or Brad Gillis - leave them alone.

 

[BlueSnMettle]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

what should you know? That the only people who use them are wankers and that real men have more than enough technique and style to not need them. They are a crutch and short of Jimi Hendrix or Brad Gillis - leave them alone.

Your eyes must be brown.:eyecrazy:

The almighty Aceman says only Jimi and Brad can handle
the whammy. Aceman is a whack job.

Peace,

Darrin

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I like 'em all, but for different things. For general use, a 2 point set to float with a set of locking tuners and a well cut nut split the difference between a strat trem and a Floyd very well. A Bigsby is great for subtle wavering, and a Floyd can pull all the way up and divebomb repetedly without losing zero, but, there is a different tone and feel compared to other bridges. I do have a couple of Strat trems with Kluson and Schaller tuners that I can dive bomb on and pull up a quarter step without going horribly out of tune (just shake the bar if I do), but that takes a meticulously cut nut as well as a particular way of wrapping the strings and plenty of graphite. THOSE are a pain to setup and maintain in that state, but to me, they sound the best.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

Forgot to mention: 90% of the time I do something that "needs" a trem, I usually just abuse the neck of my Tele's and get close enough, especially in a live situation. :burnout:

 

[blueman335]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

what should you know? That the only people who use them are wankers and that real men have more than enough technique and style to not need them. They are a crutch and short of Jimi Hendrix or Brad Gillis - leave them alone.

+1. Outside of Hendrix, I have a very low tolerence for whammy bar tricks (us old guys have to stick together, Ace baby).

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

I want to be able to do anything trem related on this, from Surfing with the Alien to Hendrixy stuff, to slight jazzy shimmers while holding chords. I like the concept of the Floyd Rose trem, but was looking up the procedure to change strings with a locking nut on and bridge . . . that just seems like a tremendous PITA. Also wondering how it effects sustain of the guitar. Would you push it out of tune if you lean your hand on the bridge with a heavy hand while picking?

 

[Grandturk]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

This has not been my experience with a double locking floating setup. New strings stretch when first put under tension, it's just the nature of the beast. I've found that combining this this stretching action with a floating bridge is asking to have to make numerous adjustments to the fine tuning, and sometimes bridge height/angle over the first couple weeks of string life as the strings and bridge settle.

Sorry. Strings don't stretch. The only thing that will stretch/tighten are the wrappings around the ball end and the wrap around the tuner post.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: What should I know about tremolos?

Glad things go so sweet in your world, GT, but here on Earth, strings stretch even after locking if you don't stretch beforehand. :friday:


GuitarStv, since you're looking at Satch/Vai type stuff (pullups and such), you'll definitely want a double-locking i.e. Floyd Rose system.

I've never noticed a difference in useable sustain between two identical guitars (same model, one with and the other without a trem). A bad setup on a Les Paul will kill sustain whereas a good setup on a cheapass Hondo with a double-locking trem will have better sustain.

Also I've only broken strings on non-tremmed guitars, and they were less than a week old, and broke at the nut (a graphite nut at that). Not at the bridge, not at the tuner where you'd expect a sharp edge in the post, but across the graphite nut. Twilight Zone.

I've used crusty, year-old strings on a Floyded guitar that sounded like total ass and felt like bad feet (or vice-versa), and never broke one when shaking the bar like a screaming baby.


However, yes, a heavy hand will push it out of tune. As well, you have to go extra deep for bent notes since the bridge will tilt forward as you manually bend the strings (fretting hand), thus reducing the overall pitch. Usually it's only half of a half-step or less.

They do make tremstops that prevent the guitar from pulling up with a string breaks, but you can manually pull the trem back. Never used one, though.


Another important note is that proper technique with a Floyd is an art unto itself. It's really easy to go too far either way, and those "shimmering jazz chords" will come out as a sickly warbling mess. Kahler trems are a lot smoother (particularly the studmounted version you see on old 80's Gibsons) but they also use a locking nut that is installed behind the regular non-locking nut, which defeats the purpose IMO. You can pair a Kahler trem with a Floyd nut, though.

As well, the studmount and flatmount (Strats and such) don't really allow for pullups as they're usually set up for dive-only. There should be a set screw on them you can adjust to let the strings pull it forward a tad to give you some pullup room, but another issue is that those trems use cups instead of locking saddles, so you can dive too deep and pop the ball end out of the cup.