sosomething
Seymour Duncan Customer Support
Re: what to do for fender cleans
what is this "clean" ??
what is this "clean" ??
what to do for fender cleans
- Thread starter FuseG4
- Start date
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: what to do for fender cleans
I'm moving to SLC on monday... I'll have a look around when I get a chance. There's no decent pawns or music stores in st. george
I'm moving to SLC on monday... I'll have a look around when I get a chance. There's no decent pawns or music stores in st. george
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Did you try the cleans at louder levels??
Worlds of difference like with the dirt!
Did you try the cleans at louder levels??
Worlds of difference like with the dirt!
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Yeah I've moved it up to 7 on the clean channel and it is better. makes my speaker fart if I really beat on it. There's a lot of bass available from the amp and it's just a cheap, SMALL 1x12 with a 65W speaker.
With the master on 7, clean gain on 10, and a humbucker, it's still clean and quite loud. Pretty satisfying. There's a lil midrangey honk when I play hard like that and it's pretty cool for blues.
The sustain's not up there so much yet on the clean mode. I should try the crunch mode with the gain all the way down and the master up to the same spot... just a touch more preamp juice seems like it'd work great.
Yeah I've moved it up to 7 on the clean channel and it is better. makes my speaker fart if I really beat on it. There's a lot of bass available from the amp and it's just a cheap, SMALL 1x12 with a 65W speaker.
With the master on 7, clean gain on 10, and a humbucker, it's still clean and quite loud. Pretty satisfying. There's a lil midrangey honk when I play hard like that and it's pretty cool for blues.
The sustain's not up there so much yet on the clean mode. I should try the crunch mode with the gain all the way down and the master up to the same spot... just a touch more preamp juice seems like it'd work great.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: what to do for fender cleans
I see you subscribe to the King/Henneman school of gain?
I see you subscribe to the King/Henneman school of gain?
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: what to do for fender cleans
OK, i'm gonna say this knowing i'm an old fart and largely ignored for my crabby old views. But here's some facts.
The Fender re-issue amps are built using cheap pcb construction .... when the re-issues first appeared, I couldn't believe it was possible to make those amps so cheaply .... only later did i realise that the traditional construction methods had been abandoned in favour of the cheaper pcb construction and lower grade transformers.
A friend of mine once was going to buy a DRRI .... i read the many reviews at Harmony Central and rang him and told him not to buy one (yeah, i know people scoff at HC, but when enough people complain about the same problems, there has to be something in it).
An original Silver Face Fender amp that has been serviced will probably last another 20, 30 or even 40 years. I doubt that a new Fender Re-issue amp will last 20 years from new. It is highly possible that the re-issues will become problematic in a very short space of time. Yes, they sound good, but the question is, for how long will they emit good sound reliably ?
I repair and build amps, I have serviced many S/F amps and once they've been brought back up to spec (often after years of hard gigging and zero servicing) they are as reliable and good-sounding (if not better) than new. Conversely, at present I have forum member Will S-T's Blues DeVille amp here with intermittent problems .... I cured the original source of the problem (broken pcb-mounted input jacks) and now the same problem has manifested in another area. A quick Google showed me that this is common ..... poor quality pcb's and wave soldering.
I realise that most affordable tube amps now are built this way, and they do sound good ... and the alternative has become the boutique level which of course is very expensive. This is why i recommend trying to get a Silver-Face Fender cheaply and having it seviced rather than buying a RI. You might get lucky and get a RI that is trouble-free. But it's a gamble, and if a RI becomes problematic it could become a liability in terms of trying to sell it.
It's been my own experience that troublesome equipment can often work fine at home and then expose it's problems on a gig or other important session. I'm expecting to see a lot of problematic cheaply-built tube amps floating around on the s/h market within ten years .... amps that will likely only be useful to tech's to re-build as p-t-p creations.
Feel free to ignore any or all of this.
OK, i'm gonna say this knowing i'm an old fart and largely ignored for my crabby old views. But here's some facts.
The Fender re-issue amps are built using cheap pcb construction .... when the re-issues first appeared, I couldn't believe it was possible to make those amps so cheaply .... only later did i realise that the traditional construction methods had been abandoned in favour of the cheaper pcb construction and lower grade transformers.
A friend of mine once was going to buy a DRRI .... i read the many reviews at Harmony Central and rang him and told him not to buy one (yeah, i know people scoff at HC, but when enough people complain about the same problems, there has to be something in it).
An original Silver Face Fender amp that has been serviced will probably last another 20, 30 or even 40 years. I doubt that a new Fender Re-issue amp will last 20 years from new. It is highly possible that the re-issues will become problematic in a very short space of time. Yes, they sound good, but the question is, for how long will they emit good sound reliably ?
I repair and build amps, I have serviced many S/F amps and once they've been brought back up to spec (often after years of hard gigging and zero servicing) they are as reliable and good-sounding (if not better) than new. Conversely, at present I have forum member Will S-T's Blues DeVille amp here with intermittent problems .... I cured the original source of the problem (broken pcb-mounted input jacks) and now the same problem has manifested in another area. A quick Google showed me that this is common ..... poor quality pcb's and wave soldering.
I realise that most affordable tube amps now are built this way, and they do sound good ... and the alternative has become the boutique level which of course is very expensive. This is why i recommend trying to get a Silver-Face Fender cheaply and having it seviced rather than buying a RI. You might get lucky and get a RI that is trouble-free. But it's a gamble, and if a RI becomes problematic it could become a liability in terms of trying to sell it.
It's been my own experience that troublesome equipment can often work fine at home and then expose it's problems on a gig or other important session. I'm expecting to see a lot of problematic cheaply-built tube amps floating around on the s/h market within ten years .... amps that will likely only be useful to tech's to re-build as p-t-p creations.
Feel free to ignore any or all of this.
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Yeah, but oftentimes the reason people complain about the same problems is because they read someone else's review that informed them of that particular problem. I'd be surprised if more than one out of five who complained about any problem on the internet actually had that specific problem.
Yeah, but oftentimes the reason people complain about the same problems is because they read someone else's review that informed them of that particular problem. I'd be surprised if more than one out of five who complained about any problem on the internet actually had that specific problem.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: what to do for fender cleans
that's good advice... hopefully someday I'll have enough money for a SF fender and just pay a few extra bones to BF it if necessary. Seems like a good investment.
Thanks man, I appreciate it.
that's good advice... hopefully someday I'll have enough money for a SF fender and just pay a few extra bones to BF it if necessary. Seems like a good investment.
Thanks man, I appreciate it.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: what to do for fender cleans
In the case of pbc amps, 'same problem' relates to intemittents .. i.e. the sound cutting in and out .... and that can come from many points, but the effect is usually the same or very similar. It is often caused because the input jacks, effects loop jacks, and all the pots are mounted to the pcb. And such problems can 'move about' once someone starts trying to cure them ..... flimsy pcb's that have to be removed to work on them, and then re-installed, often develop new fractures during the removal, repair and reinstallation processes. It's not usually a case of rough work by a tech, but simply that this form of construction is used for keeping costs down, and future serviceability is not really a consideration when these amps are designed and built. Keep in mind that many cheaper items nowdays are simply replaced under warranty should they become problematic, rather than repaired. That fact alone points to the fact that economical construction methods are not reknowned for their ease of service down the track.
In the case of pbc amps, 'same problem' relates to intemittents .. i.e. the sound cutting in and out .... and that can come from many points, but the effect is usually the same or very similar. It is often caused because the input jacks, effects loop jacks, and all the pots are mounted to the pcb. And such problems can 'move about' once someone starts trying to cure them ..... flimsy pcb's that have to be removed to work on them, and then re-installed, often develop new fractures during the removal, repair and reinstallation processes. It's not usually a case of rough work by a tech, but simply that this form of construction is used for keeping costs down, and future serviceability is not really a consideration when these amps are designed and built. Keep in mind that many cheaper items nowdays are simply replaced under warranty should they become problematic, rather than repaired. That fact alone points to the fact that economical construction methods are not reknowned for their ease of service down the track.
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Man, i understand that you have a budget to consider (who doesn't?), but i really do think, as Empty Pockets has said, that if you look around, you could find a Silver-Face Fender at a good price. They seem to be considered the 'poor relation' over there in the US because the Tweeds and BFs get all the acclaim and collectibility status. That leads me to suspect that the SF ones might still be found in pawn shops, garage sales, and neglected corners in music stores, maybe covered in dust and looking tired and worn .... the ideal candidates for a cheap purchase with maybe a little money left for a service. Things like cosmetic fittings (knobs, lamp bezels, legs, tolex, corners, etc) are easily available, and an amp missing a few parts like that allow you to haggle the price down.
What I'd do is network .... tell everyone i know i'm looking for an old SF Fender amp (while i was also searching pawn shops, s/h sales outlets etc) .... it's amazing how often a friend might stumble across an item and think ..."someone was saying they wanted one of these recently....who was that?...oh yeah ....my pal Fuse...". That networking method has worked for me several times, and it sure as heck wouldn't have brought those results if i hadn't done it.
There's a few things that can help getting old Fender SFs cheaply besides appearance ...master volume models .... not popular, but hey, they can easily be taken out of circuit....... tremolo or reverb not working ? ....cool, more leverage to get a lower price, and those things can be repaired down the track. Amp sounds weak and has low output?....most likely needs new tubes and filter caps, standard service items, and a great way to get the amp cheaply. These are not hard and fast facts in every case, but many of those old amps got used and abused and neglected until they seem to be almost worthless. The reality is, as long as they have working transformers, speaker and the original chasis they're usually not too far from being brought back to being great sounding amps.
Man, i understand that you have a budget to consider (who doesn't?), but i really do think, as Empty Pockets has said, that if you look around, you could find a Silver-Face Fender at a good price. They seem to be considered the 'poor relation' over there in the US because the Tweeds and BFs get all the acclaim and collectibility status. That leads me to suspect that the SF ones might still be found in pawn shops, garage sales, and neglected corners in music stores, maybe covered in dust and looking tired and worn .... the ideal candidates for a cheap purchase with maybe a little money left for a service. Things like cosmetic fittings (knobs, lamp bezels, legs, tolex, corners, etc) are easily available, and an amp missing a few parts like that allow you to haggle the price down.
What I'd do is network .... tell everyone i know i'm looking for an old SF Fender amp (while i was also searching pawn shops, s/h sales outlets etc) .... it's amazing how often a friend might stumble across an item and think ..."someone was saying they wanted one of these recently....who was that?...oh yeah ....my pal Fuse...". That networking method has worked for me several times, and it sure as heck wouldn't have brought those results if i hadn't done it.
There's a few things that can help getting old Fender SFs cheaply besides appearance ...master volume models .... not popular, but hey, they can easily be taken out of circuit....... tremolo or reverb not working ? ....cool, more leverage to get a lower price, and those things can be repaired down the track. Amp sounds weak and has low output?....most likely needs new tubes and filter caps, standard service items, and a great way to get the amp cheaply. These are not hard and fast facts in every case, but many of those old amps got used and abused and neglected until they seem to be almost worthless. The reality is, as long as they have working transformers, speaker and the original chasis they're usually not too far from being brought back to being great sounding amps.
JeffB
Let it B
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Unfortunately really not the case anymore-10-15 years ago? It was the case. 20 years ago you couldn't give them away.
These days they are considered "vintage" and even like a really poorly put together inch thick of poly 70 CBS Fender guitar, they still command a substantial sum. You don't usually find too many bargains. Obviously they don't command the prices a BF , Tweed, Blonde or Brown does, but the guitar shops and marts know the worth.
Thanks to Ebay, pawnshop/garage sale deals are getting to be pretty rare in all but the smallest towns/most rural of areas.
Unfortunately really not the case anymore-10-15 years ago? It was the case. 20 years ago you couldn't give them away.
These days they are considered "vintage" and even like a really poorly put together inch thick of poly 70 CBS Fender guitar, they still command a substantial sum. You don't usually find too many bargains. Obviously they don't command the prices a BF , Tweed, Blonde or Brown does, but the guitar shops and marts know the worth.
Thanks to Ebay, pawnshop/garage sale deals are getting to be pretty rare in all but the smallest towns/most rural of areas.
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Let me break it down for you one time:
IF THE DELUXE REVERB IS YOUR "UNICORN", DON'T GET ANYTHING THAT'S NOT A DELUXE REVERB.
Let me break it down for you one time:
IF THE DELUXE REVERB IS YOUR "UNICORN", DON'T GET ANYTHING THAT'S NOT A DELUXE REVERB.
Bludave
New member
Re: what to do for fender cleans
What you really need to consider is A/B'ing your "New" amp with the DSL. I did this for years using a Super Reverb & a Marshall 900. It was an awesome combination. Great cleans with the SR & great drive with the Marshall. I also added a TS9 in front of the SR so I could get great SRV type of tones with it also.
The DRRI would not be my first choice. Its a great amp. I have a 68 DR & I love it but because it only has 22W it has very little headroom & IMHO the DR is not a very clean amp. If you want really clean look at a Twin. Its a lot more power then what you need for the basement, but the cleans will be unbeatable. The SR would also be a good choice. It is 40W and has 4 10" speakers so clean and loud will be what you have. Anything less then 25 or 30W I think is not going to have enough headroom to stay clean. Another amp to consider would be a used Peavey Classic 30 or 50. Very Fenderish and channel switching.
What you really need to consider is A/B'ing your "New" amp with the DSL. I did this for years using a Super Reverb & a Marshall 900. It was an awesome combination. Great cleans with the SR & great drive with the Marshall. I also added a TS9 in front of the SR so I could get great SRV type of tones with it also.
The DRRI would not be my first choice. Its a great amp. I have a 68 DR & I love it but because it only has 22W it has very little headroom & IMHO the DR is not a very clean amp. If you want really clean look at a Twin. Its a lot more power then what you need for the basement, but the cleans will be unbeatable. The SR would also be a good choice. It is 40W and has 4 10" speakers so clean and loud will be what you have. Anything less then 25 or 30W I think is not going to have enough headroom to stay clean. Another amp to consider would be a used Peavey Classic 30 or 50. Very Fenderish and channel switching.
eschoendorff
New member
Re: what to do for fender cleans
Buy another DSL. Run one clean, the other dirty.
Buy another DSL. Run one clean, the other dirty.
