what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

[deftgala]

I am not sure if I am clear so here's the story.

At my gig last night, the guys were saying that my Marshall 50watt DSL head and 4x12 cab sounds a bit overpowering. At gigs, it is set usually at volume 4-5 and I don't get that "cranked out" Marshall sound I want. In other words, I want to crank up the volume to 7-8 without overpowering everyone else in the band. Band "volume levels" are very important to me.

Here is my question:
I heard somewhere that if I take out half the tubes the amp runs on (take out 2 pre amp tubes and 1 power tube), that my amp will sound like a 25 watter.

is this true? if so, will I damage my amp? what do you recommend?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

No way. You can't take any tubes out of your amp, or you'll mess it up.

On some 100W amps, you can remove the inner two or outer two power tubes, leaving all the preamp tubes in place. Then, make the the ohms rating of the head half the value of the cabinet, instead of the same.

On a 50W amp, the power tubes are working like a piston going between them (push pull). If you hank out one tube, the other one with just fry very quickly.

Just get a THD hotplate, overdrive, or use a touch more gain at lower volumes. What I do with my Jubilee is run an Alesis Nanoverb in the FX loop, and use the Nanoverb's input and output volume to pull back the volume of the amp. Try the Nanoverb trick for a touch of reverb and some attenuation at a cheap price of $65.

 

[deftgala]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Hey there GJ... it's a good thing I asked before trying this out. the guy that told me about it does have a 100 watter but wasn't sure about 50 watts.

is the Nanoverb an attenuater?

what is an attenuater?

 

[flank]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

get that Van Halen master guy in here (is his name VhHolic or somethin? lol)......he made some clips of his marshall with only 1 power tube in it, and it sounded awesome.......find his name in the user list and send him a PM, he may be able to help you

 

[FELIX57]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

in my old band my guitarist had a 400 watt fender amp and they took out half the tubes it sounded like cr@p like a lot of noise im not sure as to why though

 

[muttonchopsrule]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

is the Nanoverb an attenuater?

what is an attenuater?

no.

an attenuater is a device that goes between your amp and your speakers, and soaks up some of the power that is driving the speakers. this allows you to crank your amp to get that sweet tone, while maintaining a lower volume from the speakers themselves.

think of it as sort of a sponge.

if you haven't already, you can turn down the channel volumes on your amp, and just turn up your master volume. i do this on my amp when i have to keep my volume lower on stage...that way, the preamp volume is set lower, and the power amp is getting pushed harder.

 

[deftgala]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

no.

an attenuater is a device that goes between your amp and your speakers, and soaks up some of the power that is driving the speakers. this allows you to crank your amp to get that sweet tone, while maintaining a lower volume from the speakers themselves.

think of it as sort of a sponge.

if you haven't already, you can turn down the channel volumes on your amp, and just turn up your master volume. i do this on my amp when i have to keep my volume lower on stage...that way, the preamp volume is set lower, and the power amp is getting pushed harder.

I have the DSL 50 watt head and they don't have master volumes. Turing the volume doiwn but the gain up doesn't quite do the job I'm seeking. Buying an attenuator seems like an option. I'm assuming that I can find one at the local guitar shop.

Does an attenuator compromise tone, or enhance it?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Since when are DSL 50's not Master volume heads? You should have a volume channel for each clannel (clean and dirty) a gain knob for the drive channel, and a master volume, unless I just don't understand the DSL.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Ok...on a 100 watt amp you can pull to of the tubes (either the inside 2 or the outside 2...) and run it as a 50 watter, but I would never try to run a 50 watt with only 1 power tube. Now, if you start taking preamp tubes out the amp will stop working. A Nanoverb is not an attenuator, is it a 1/3 rack mount reverb/chours processer from Alsis. An attentuator is a unit that you run between your amp and your cab, it allows you to crank the amp to get the amp you want then simply "attenuate" the overall volume lever w/o loosing the tone you have. If you want an attenuator look at a Weber mass (the Mini mass, NOT the dump load), or a THD hot plate...DO NOT EVEN LOOK SIDEWAYS AT A MARSHALL POWER BREAK OR A SCHOLTZ POWER SOAK!

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Here is my question:
I heard somewhere that if I take out half the tubes the amp runs on (take out 2 pre amp tubes and 1 power tube), that my amp will sound like a 25 watter.

is this true? if so, will I damage my amp? what do you recommend?

I thought something sounded kinda hinky... The 50w DSL has 2 power tubes, and 4 12ax7s. As has been mentioned- no, you cannot take out 1 power tube- in a class AB amp they work in pairs. Keep in mind that cutting your power in half does not equal cutting your percieved volume in half. I saw this chart somewhere and it's applicable here:

40 watts is 94% as loud as 50 watts.
30 watts is 86% as loud as 50 watts.
25 watts is 81% as loud as 50 watts.
22 watts is 78% as loud as 50 watts.
20 watts is 76% as loud as 50 watts.
18 watts is 74% as loud as 50 watts.
15 watts is 70% as loud as 50 watts.
12 watts is 65% as loud as 50 watts.
10 watts is 62% as loud as 50 watts.
9 watts is 60% as loud as 50 watts.
8 watts is 56% as loud as 50 watts.
7 watts is 55% as loud as 50 watts.
6 watts is 53% as loud as 50 watts.
5 watts is 50% as loud as 50 watts.
4 watts is 47% as loud as 50 watts.
3 watts is 43% as loud as 50 watts.
2 watts is 38% as loud as 50 watts.
1 watt is 31% as loud as 50 watts.
3/4 watt is 28% as loud as 50 watts.
1/2 watt is 25% as loud as 50 watts.
1/4 watt is 20% as loud as 50 watts.
1/10 watt is 15% as loud as 50 watts.
50mW is 13% as loud as 50 watts
20mW is 10% as loud as 50 watts.
10mW is 8% as loud as 50 watts.
5mW is 6% as loud as 50 watts.
1mW is 4% as loud as 50 watts.
0.5mW is 3% as loud as 50 watts.
0.1mW is 2% as loud as 50 watts.
50uW is 1.6% as loud as 50 watts.
10uW is 1% as loud as 50 watts.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

DO NOT EVEN LOOK SIDEWAYS AT A MARSHALL POWER BREAK OR A SCHOLTZ POWER SOAK!

:laugh2:

 

[deftgala]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Since when are DSL 50's not Master volume heads? You should have a volume channel for each clannel (clean and dirty) a gain knob for the drive channel, and a master volume, unless I just don't understand the DSL.

You got me thinking for a moment when I read this. The DSL has a volume knob for each channel (clean and dirty), a gain knob for each channel (clean and dirty) BUT NO master volume. Although it would have been cool to have that option.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

The DSL has a volume knob for each channel (clean and dirty), a gain knob for each channel (clean and dirty) BUT NO master volume. Although it would have been cool to have that option.

Well the Volume is the master, and the gainknobs are for the preamp.
Of course it has Mastervolume, all DSL TSL style marshalls have those.

 

[MikeS]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

I'm missing something... I always saw the "master volume" as an independant volume, seperate from the "volume" that cranks the power tubes. What am I missing?

The layout of the JCM2000s are a gain knob (pre) and volume (power) per channel. Everything else is reverb or EQ. You cannot heat up those power tubes effectively without an attenuator or a massive hearing loss.

 

[Rich_T]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Another attenuator to sonsider is the Sequis Richter Control. But i'll second the motion that the Marshall power break is junk.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

One gain and one volume is a mastervolume configuration.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

Unfortunately, 'master volume' can mean two things.

On an amp with a gain and volume, the volume is considered the master volume.

On a 2 or 3 channel amp with 2 gains, 2 volumes, the extra volume control that controls everything is often called a master volume, although it really should be called a global volume.

'Non Master Volume' is an amp with no gain control, only 1 or 2 volume controls that add gain, the louder the amp is.

Although an FX device in the loop doesn't technically attenuate the signal like a Hotplate, it allows you to turn up the preamp and power section on the amp, then control how much of the pre signal is fed to the power section. It's kinda like using the FX unit's volume control in the same way you'd bend a garden hose in half, to control the water output.

 

[saladin]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

50 watts overpowering? What's the rest of your band playing thru, Crate SS amps? Tell them to get better amps!!!!!!!!!

 

[Imp]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

50 watts overpowering? What's the rest of your band playing thru, Crate SS amps? Tell them to get better amps!!!!!!!!!

mate, whaaaaaa!? :laugh2: a 50 watter is pretty much the loudest amp 95% of guitarists will need.. you reckon a 31-watt AC30 will be quieter?

+1 for the THD hotplate as well - i've only really noticed a difference when you attenuate a 100 watter to bedroom levels.. it's said the hotplate kills some of the treble, but the hi-gain sounds DSL 50 puts out need a bit of rounding off IMO..

tom

 

[deftgala]

Re: what would happen if I ran my 50watt Marshall head on less tubes than normal?

50 watts overpowering? What's the rest of your band playing thru, Crate SS amps? Tell them to get better amps!!!!!!!!!

My band is playing through some good gear but when you play at a bar or a club, a half stack isn't really necessary considering we don't want customers ears to bleed. We want them to have a good time so we try to play at a reasonable volume. Do you gig?