What's the best piezo system for electrics?

[That90'sGuy]

I'm looking at tons of piezo systems thinking up my dream guitar. The mixed tones I got on the Fishman were pretty awesome (I tried it out on a Parker Fly Deluxe). However, it had to be blended right to sound good, otherwise it was a bit too tinny.

L.R. Baggs has their piezo systems out. From what I've gathered, these are much better than the Fishman.

Price wise, the most realistic is the new Graph Tech F.A.A.S. system (otherwise known as the Acousti-phonic). Does anyone have an experience with these?

Another guitar I was looking at has the RMC piezo system installed. Everything I've heard about this has been wonderful. I'm guessing this is the best, but I haven't tried the Graph Tech system, so I'm not sure.

Has anyone actually tried all of these and is there anything else that I'm missing?

I'm looking for a jumbo type acoustic tone from my electric. Preferably something that's big, bright, rich and full with a bit of a biting top end (think Taylor acoustics).

Piezo systems aren't really something a lot of guitarists have tapped into and after trying one, I think I'd rather have that than trying to amplify an acoustic properly. The options from blending signals is mind boggling to me. Any insight into this would be much appreciated

 

[tone4days]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

hello the,

i have an RMC on my brian moore i88.13 and am very happy with it - it is reliable and sounds great live ... but i think you might need to normalize your expectations a bit .. getting a solid body electric to sound like an actual jumbo might not be realistic ... my experience is that you can get a convincing reproduction reminiscent of an Ovation if you EQ the signal properly and use a touch of effects ... the best tone from a piezo on a solidbody came via a yamaha ag-stomp ... very impressive mic modeling, EQ, antifeedback control, and effects .. serves as a DI box to a PA as well

good luck
t4d

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

tone4days... I definitely agree. Those are my "ideal" expectations, but I know it won't sound exact. I've heard good things about the Yamaha... good call! How would you call the natural tone of your piezo? Would you call it warm, dark, bright etc.?

I know Mincer has the RMC piezo system on his Brian Moore so it'd be interested to hear his side as well.

Can anyone else comment on how their piezo sounds? Blueline said that he liked the Graph Tech system the best so I'd be interested on hearing what that sounds like too.

I created this thread with the intention of breaking down the different popular systems out there, comparing them and seeing what tonally is the best, what's the best for the price, what's the pros/cons of each etc.

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I'm in the process of building a Strat, which will have the Graphtech system installed. From asking around a lot and reading reviews, the general consensus seems to be that the Graphtech system sounds the best. Another advantage is that you're getting two upgrades in one: the Piezo and Graphtech saddles.

Make sure you get the Acoustiphonic onboard preamp system to go with it though, no piezo will sound its best without some sort of preamp. I would also recommend a three way mini toggle to switch between magnetic, piezo, and blended pickup combinations. This isn't necessary, but useful if you want to quickly switch between the different pickups. Without a switch, you'll need to turn one volume to 0, then turn up the other to the desired level. If you want to blend them, you'll need to adjust both knobs. With a switch, you can set everything and then toggle back and forth between the piezo and magnetic pickups.

The only other thing you need to keep in mind is that the wires may not be 100% hidden. You didn't mention what type of guitar or bridge this would be used with, but in a Strat, you need to file grooves in the pickguard in front of the bridge, and then run the wires under there. If you want a more hidden install, you need to drill holes in the bridge plate and body and run the wires that way. The down side to that, besides having to route the body, is that if you need to do any major intonation changes, the bridge saddle may end up directly over the hole and you won't be able to run the wires through it. This is one area where the Fishman system has an advantage, because the install is completely hidden. But overall, I think the Graphtech system is your best bet.

Finally, if you really want it to sound its best, you need to run the piezo through either an acoustic amp or a PA system. That doesn't mean it won't sound good through an electric amp with a good clean channel, but it may not sound quite like a real acoustic if you run it through a traditional electric amp.

Ryan

 

[tone4days]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

... no piezo will sound its best without some sort of preamp.

man, i really agree with this ... i wish i could get an onboard preamp/eq unit on my guitar, but it's already a rat's nest under the hood (Roland GK onboard in addition to PRS style 5 way for the SD pups) ... i played the godin (LX-sa)with the mag/GK synth/L.R. Baggs piezo and liked it alot more than my brian moore, but couldnt swing the dollars ... it has a 3 band graphic eq that i thought sounded just about perfect ... into the yamaha and an SWR strawberry blonde amp it was like budda


i consider the unprocessed EQ of my RMC to be something like a 7 in the bass, a 5 in the low mids, a 7 in the upper mids, and a 9 in the highs .. i have to tweak with it on my amp (carvin ag-100d) to get it just where i want it .. the effects help too - just a touch of chorus and verb .. i bet mincer's sounds better than mine, because he plays through a better system and has more experience EQing it ... again, no one would mistake it for an upscale martin / takamine / guild /taylor / larivee /etc, but it gets the job done and didnt cost me an arm and a leg ...

good luck
cheers
t4d

 

[Mattt]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I've seen floyd equiped guitars with piezos.... yet i've never seen those floyd's sold separately, any ideas?

 

[Arkitkt]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

One vote for the L.R.Baggs system. I tried all other systems I could find before buying the X-Bridge for my Strat.
One big advantage (IMO) is that it looks just just like a standard strat bridge.

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

One vote for the L.R.Baggs system. I tried all other systems I could find before buying the X-Bridge for my Strat.
One big advantage (IMO) is that it looks just just like a standard strat bridge.

Did you happen to try the Graphtech Ghost system? I had almost decided on that, until I started looking at the X-Bridge. Both have pretty good reviews...now I can't decide which one to get :dammit:

I'm assuming they make a model to fit the 2 point tremolo route of an American Strat? From the pics on their web site, it looks like the wires are hidden. That's a minor problem with the Graphtech system. I'm afraid that running the wires from the saddles under the pickguard will result in one of them getting pinched and breaking. The Baggs system doesn't seem to be too expensive either. I'd be interested in hearing more about the X-Bridge and how you like it.

Ryan

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

here's my solution to the problem: Although it might not be what you want for sure, I would say give an Acoustic simulator stompbox a try. I like the sound of the Boss sim, but you might find something else too.

 

[y2stevo]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

here's my solution to the problem: Although it might not be what you want for sure, I would say give an Acoustic simulator stompbox a try. I like the sound of the Boss sim, but you might find something else too.

But the Boss sim doesnt work near the same way a piezo, piezo use crystals and react to the displaced air when a string is played mimicing the sound of an acoustic guitar..

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I should have mentioned that I owned a Boss AC-2 for a while. Trust me, if you want anything remotely like an acoustic, don't go that route. It was noisy as **** and it thinned out the signal, but clipped too easily and never gave any accurate acoustic tone.

Thanks tone4days for your review of the RMC. The clips I've heard of the RMC were decent, but I wasn't all that impressed. The L.R. Baggs piezo looks pretty good. However, I'd also like to hear the lowdown on the Graph Tech F.A.A.S./ Acousti-Phonic system before I make any decisions.

An integral part of my next purchase will be a piezo system (H-S-H w/ coil split, piezo mix and blending... I think I'll have enough tones to cover each individual band for the past 90 years :laugh2: )

Arkitkt, have you tried the Graph Tech system as well and still preferred the L.R. Baggs?

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

Yeah, an Acoustic Simulator pedal is nothing like an actual piezo pickup. A really good piezo system run through a PA or acoustic amp is very hard to differentiate from an actual acoustic.

Ryan

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

One vote for the L.R.Baggs system. I tried all other systems I could find before buying the X-Bridge for my Strat.
One big advantage (IMO) is that it looks just just like a standard strat bridge.

Did you install it yourself or have a tech do it? From what I've read, installing the stereo jack requires routing about half an inch of wood from around the jack plate. I'm wondering if you have to use the one they provide, or if you can avoid the routing by using a standard Switchcraft stereo jack.

Ryan

 

[msplines]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I've got 2 Fishmans with the onboard pre-amp and three position switch; they are fine if you use a decent EQ and amp for the piezo side but using one valve amp to do both means a compromise all across the board. Even so, it is still really effective compared with farting about with guitar changes on stage.
You really shouldn't try it without a preamp, it's doomed to mediocrity and you need to know that if you forget to take the jack out, the preamp battery goes flat in no time - a real pisser in a gig!

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

This may be a stupid question, but can all of these work with just a mono output jack? No offense, but a few holes to fit electronics is fine, but not another jack... that just looks like a nightmare to me :smack:. Besides, I hate Y-cables and I'm perfectly happy with using one amp

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

bump

 

[Mincer]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I use and love the RMCs...you have to use an insert cable (2-TS to 1 TRS) cable with it, although RMC says it can be wired through a mono cable (using a switching jack) if needed. I can't really see the benefits to this though, since the piezo needs a full range amp and cab, and sounds terrible with your guitar amp. Both my mag signals and piezo get split, my mag pickups to a preamp with speaker simulators (roland GP-100) and to a mixer. The Piezo goes to the mixer with a Nanoverb in the aux send...both signals are mixed together to 2 JBL EONs, 15's and horns. Very awesome!

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

I looked into this some more, here's what I know:

All the available systems require a stereo jack. If you just want to run the piezo through the clean channel of your electric amp, you can use an ordinary mono instrument cable. The LR Baggs system may require you to file some wood in the jack pocket to make room for the jack assembly, although you can probably get an ordinary Switchcraft jack instead. You'll just need to disconnect the wires from the Baggs pre-wired stereo jack and solder them to the new jack.

You definitely need some type of preamp. The Ctrl-X preamp is installed in the guitar, and the 9 volt battery has about 1000 hours of battery power. You can also use an external preamp unit, but I would suggest the onboard preamp. The volume acts as a master volume for both magnetic and piezo pickups, and the pot included with the preamp allows you to blend the two signals.

Overall, I think it's probably the best of the available systems, although the Graphtech system sounds nice as well. Since I'm building my Strat from parts, I like the fact that the Baggs system is a direct bridge replacement, with a completely hidden installation.

Ryan

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

Thanks for the research Ryan! (Thanks for the info too Mincer)

Ok... done deal. You can't really argue with 1000 hours battery life with the L.R. Baggs. Sounds like an awesome system. I guess I'll just attach the wires from the other jack to the one on my Switchcraft jack.

I'll definitely be getting the CTRL-X preamp with it (I figured if I was gonna get a piezo system, I'd make sure to get a blend control and a toggle switch to get magnetic/magnetic & piezo/piezo.

Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like L.R. Baggs is the way to go (now I hope they have a replacement for the 1088 Gotoh vintage trem on the new guitar I'm getting )

 

[rspst14]

Re: What's the best piezo system for electrics?

They make a replacement for the 2 and 6 post Fender tremolos, as well as Fender hardtail bridges and I believe Tuneomatics. If you have something else, you may want to look into the Graphtech system.

Ryan