What's up with Blackmachine?

[FernandoDuarte]

I remember in 2007ish they were THE shred guitar to go, then Doug had an accident IIRC and took a break, Feline finished some of his in-progress guitars, but I never heard of them again.
Beside of new headless guitar, their website seems to be the same pics from 20 years ago

Does anyone knows what happened? If Doug still builds?
They looked cool AF

 

[Mincer]

I am not sure what happened, but those guitars were quite amazing. Very expensive for what they were, though. I don't think I ever saw one outside of their promotions online.

 

[beaubrummels]

http://blackmachine.net/ordering.htm

"Closed For Now!

Thanks.

D​"

 

[Cynical]

I remember in 2007ish they were THE shred guitar to go, then Doug had an accident IIRC and took a break, Feline finished some of his in-progress guitars, but I never heard of them again.
Beside of new headless guitar, their website seems to be the same pics from 20 years ago

Does anyone knows what happened? If Doug still builds?
They looked cool AF

It was a flash-in-the-pan hype brand, catapulted to prominence briefly because Misha Mansoor was talking about how great they were at the peak of his popularity (mainly so that he could flip a bunch of guitars at a $20,000 profit each). Once a lot of people got their hands on them, everyone realized they were all empty hype, and that was that. Some fools were parted with their money, and the world kept turning.

 

[Mincer]

It was a flash-in-the-pan hype brand, catapulted to prominence briefly because Misha Mansoor was talking about how great they were at the peak of his popularity (mainly so that he could flip a bunch of guitars at a $20,000 profit each). Once a lot of people got their hands on them, everyone realized they were all empty hype, and that was that. Some fools were parted with their money, and the world kept turning.

I didn't realize it was so grift-y. I did like their designs, but didn't think they should cost as much as they did.

 

[Cynical]

I should clarify, the brand itself wasn't grifty per se. Doug basically just wanted to do a few builds for close friends and musicians that he was a fan of; the hype wasn't of his making, and he didn't really like that it was happening. The people who hyped up and then resold his guitars for >$20,000 made far more money than Doug ever did.

It's a shame that one luthier got bullied into taking his examination of one of them off the web, to the point that not even wayback can find it now. There were *a lot* of build shortcuts taken that you wouldn't expect on a $1000 guitar, much less a $20,000 guitar.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Djentmachine..

 

[Mincer]

I should clarify, the brand itself wasn't grifty per se. Doug basically just wanted to do a few builds for close friends and musicians that he was a fan of; the hype wasn't of his making, and he didn't really like that it was happening. The people who hyped up and then resold his guitars for >$20,000 made far more money than Doug ever did.

It's a shame that one luthier got bullied into taking his examination of one of them off the web, to the point that not even wayback can find it now. There were *a lot* of build shortcuts taken that you wouldn't expect on a $1000 guitar, much less a $20,000 guitar.

I didn't hear about them. Do you have a summary?

 

[Chistopher]

There were *a lot* of build shortcuts taken that you wouldn't expect on a $1000 guitar, much less a $20,000 guitar.

What sort of short cuts? Bolt-on necks, for example, are a shortcut, and there's nothing wrong with them. But if it's something like not measuring fully, I can see the issues.

 

[Cynical]

I didn't hear about them. Do you have a summary?

The biggest ones that I remember are that the fanned frets (the guitar in question was an FF8, not a B2 or B7) were done poorly and some of the strings couldn't be intonated correctly as a result, he used drywall screws to bolt the neck in, a cheap chineseum bridge, and the neck binding was completely screwed up.

 

[Mincer]

Wow, that's a shame. If done well at a reasonable price, those should fly off the shelves and they'd still be in business.

 

[Cynical]

Wow, that's a shame. If done well at a reasonable price, those should fly off the shelves and they'd still be in business.

They were never going to "fly off the shelves", at least in their original form -- Doug was only capable of building a few guitars per year. Demand on them was still crazy enough that guitars that he originally sold for $3000 ended up selling used years later for almost 10x that. The hype has mostly died down now, although there's still a few people out there who swear that the B2 is some kind of magic guitar that has properties that no other instrument in the world does.

 

[Mincer]

I think that since then, there are a handful of companies that started doing 'sort of' the sameish thing.

 

[Cynical]

I think that since then, there are a handful of companies that started doing 'sort of' the sameish thing.

There are -- Ormsby, Skervessen, and Siggery are all doing copies.

 

[Mincer]

There are -- Ormsby, Skervessen, and Siggery are all doing copies.

Yes, those were the 3 I was thinking of. I love the idea- multi-piece necks and bodies of beautiful satin-finished wood. They are all probably pretty light, too.

 

[Cynical]

Yes, those were the 3 I was thinking of. I love the idea- multi-piece necks and bodies of beautiful satin-finished wood. They are all probably pretty light, too.

I'd be a bit concerned about the ergonomics of the super-thin bodies (one of the big Blackmachine features that the imitators have all picked up is that their bodies were only about 3/5ths as thick as a normal strat), but yeah, if you're concerned about weight, I'd imagine it's probably an incredible design (although with the bodies being thin and the necks being normal size, maybe they could get neck dive-y?). With what little I know of what you play, you'd probably want to change pickups as well (one of the features of the original Blackmachines was that the dude made his own pickups, which were *monstrous* output ceramic magnet pups, and most of the imitators have followed the trend going with either Nazguls or BK Painkillers).

 

[orpheo]

What sort of short cuts? Bolt-on necks, for example, are a shortcut, and there's nothing wrong with them. But if it's something like not measuring fully, I can see the issues.

I disagree wholeheartely. I have made approximately 300 guitars and a set neck gibson-style is easier than a bolt-on. a PRS-style glued in as difficult as a bolt-on. bolt on is not easier. It is just not.

 

[orpheo]

The thing is that it is really just a superboring guitar to make. If you prep your templates right once, you can pump out a guitar like that in less than 25 hours. The material cost is quite low (100 for pickups if SD, 200 if BKP, 100 bridge and tuners with hipshot, 100 other (fretwire, electrics, trussrods etc), 100 body, 100 neck, 50 board and headstock veneer), so 550 to 650. 25 hours x 50h wage is 1250. total cost 1900. add a case; 2000. Add case goodies: 2025. Add rougly 10% overhead cost; 2200. Add roughly 10% profit: 2500.

Roughballing here, of course. There is NO reason a guitar like that should cost more than 2500 euro's especially if it is satin. OH DAMN I forgot to add the vat.. Fine. 2750 for the USA, 3000 for the EU.

 

[Mincer]

I'd be a bit concerned about the ergonomics of the super-thin bodies (one of the big Blackmachine features that the imitators have all picked up is that their bodies were only about 3/5ths as thick as a normal strat), but yeah, if you're concerned about weight, I'd imagine it's probably an incredible design (although with the bodies being thin and the necks being normal size, maybe they could get neck dive-y?). With what little I know of what you play, you'd probably want to change pickups as well (one of the features of the original Blackmachines was that the dude made his own pickups, which were *monstrous* output ceramic magnet pups, and most of the imitators have followed the trend going with either Nazguls or BK Painkillers).

Yeah, the neck-divey aspect is probably there. It would work better as a headless design with such a thin body.

 

[Cynical]

I disagree wholeheartely. I have made approximately 300 guitars and a set neck gibson-style is easier than a bolt-on. a PRS-style glued in as difficult as a bolt-on. bolt on is not easier. It is just not.

As someone who isn't particularly into either Gibsons or PRSs, what's different about a PRS set neck that makes them harder to do?

Yeah, the neck-divey aspect is probably there. It would work better as a headless design with such a thin body.​

Interestingly, it would seem that Doug agreed with you; towards the end of his time building, he introduced a headless version. It never caught on for a few reasons, the biggest of which is probably that his design required double ball-end strings.