What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

I agree with everyone who mentioned that tough times have caused guitar players to spend their expendable cash on guitar toys that fall into a comfortable price point. It's also part of the reason lunchbox amps are so popular.

Pedals have almost become like toys in a way.....like Star Wars figures or Pokémon cards.

One thing I've noticed is how little time many guitar hobbyists spend getting to know their FX on a musical level, often parting with them before using them to their full potential. It's a sign of the times, with the trend of instant gratification over creativity. It's a shame because many of these musical toys are brilliant electronic creations full of musical potential.

I think everyone who's amassed some nice FX should stop the acquisition and spend some quality time digging into the ones they already have. You'll probably stop letting some go so quickly.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

I have a few good pedals. They are all either drive or compression. I have one amp with 99 built in presets, editable and midi compatible.
I wouldn't mind having a dedicated chorus, phaser or flanger. Oh or a stereo digital delay. If I find a deal on one, I may get it. However, the stuff I have suits my purposes just fine.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Probably some Chinese factory making attractive offers to random brands.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Then you have the "boutiquest of the boutique" informal competitions, especially among guitar forums.

Boutique Queen #1: "Oh, you're still using Fulltone pedals? Through a friend of a friend of a relative's friend of a friend who toured in the studio with Barney K., or Uncle Barney as I call him, I found this guy who lives in a cabin in the Alaskan bush who makes the most exquisite pedals entirely by hand from old toasters and microwaves he scrounges at the landfill. They're a bit pricey, but he only makes 3 a year so long as the Winter isn't too harsh and he's not spending all his time hunting and fishing for daily survival. Oh and of course they're true bypass, you know, because the tone is so much better and I need to have it totally transparent or my tone suffers and I have an untreated mental illness known as OCD."

Boutique Queen #2: "Yeah I had one of those. They're ok, but not totally true bypass like the one I got from a guy who lives in a cave in North Carolina. He makes them out of old cold-war-era military field radios and black-and-white Philco TVs, but only the rare models with the orange bakelite housing, so you know it's military-spec so it can survive the coming nuclear/zombie/political/racial/Syrian Refugee/natural disaster/apocalypse. Completely hand-wired with NOS vintage push-back wire he gets from his Great-Uncle in Poland who sources it from military hardware from the former Soviet Republics.
When you turn it off, it's just like my zero-friction no-load Tone pot is wired directly to the input circuit of my lunchbox amp. Purest tone imaginable. They're really expensive though, and the guy only made 3. Jeff Beck has one, David Gilmour has the other. My Gibson by Epiphone Les Paul has never sounded more better. He's not an electrical engineer, but he's an American, making stuff in America, so you know it's a quality piece."
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Gearjoneser said:
One thing I've noticed is how little time many guitar hobbyists spend getting to know their FX on a musical level, often parting with them before using them to their full potential. It's a sign of the times, with the trend of instant gratification over creativity. It's a shame because many of these musical toys are brilliant electronic creations full of musical potential.

I think everyone who's amassed some nice FX should stop the acquisition and spend some quality time digging into the ones they already have. You'll probably stop letting some go so quickly.
Click to expand...

I really agree with this completely. It's key. It's really key to a whole different level of satisfaction. I myself buy/sell regularly, but only as a refinement process not to exchange one for another. My gear is growing out of interest, not collecting.

------------------------
I dig the huge influx of pedal builders and amp makers. At the end of the day it gives us a clear contrast between the mediocre/run of the mill from the truly passionate. Those with something real to offer stick with it. Those who are interested in a quick market share will find their product and interest diminishing.

In my observation, when Seymour left the company (and others) the whole spirit of the company shifted (the direction obviously had been already). SD pickups and off-shore pedals are low-cost and easy to get, that is a big plus for any company and this latest batch of pedals seems to have hit that specific mid priced working mans market with alot of positive feedback. Outside of the old standards, SD fell out of the real vintage race some time ago. Builders who stayed integral to true vintage tone, next level construction and innovation own that market and it's so good for players right now. Ironically (or naturally) SD now has big footing in the high-gain side of the pickup/player market (it's easy to see why that happened internally).

Different company, different times, different captains at the helm, different products...and different user base.

It's all good IMO.

Edited-
 
Last edited:
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Reading through this thread, I realize that I am the worst sort of consumer- one that is happy with the pickups I now have and one that hasn't bought an individual pedal in 10 years, or an amp in about 15. I don't collect shiny objects, and the music I make (and advancing my craft) is more important to me than any hype the magazines throw into their 'reviews' of new gear. I do enjoy other's delight in getting new stuff, and I like knowing what is out there, though.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

DrNewcenstein said:
Then you have the "boutiquest of the boutique" informal competitions, especially among guitar forums.

Boutique Queen #1: "Oh, you're still using Fulltone pedals? Through a friend of a friend of a relative's friend of a friend who toured in the studio with Barney K., or Uncle Barney as I call him, I found this guy who lives in a cabin in the Alaskan bush who makes the most exquisite pedals entirely by hand from old toasters and microwaves he scrounges at the landfill. They're a bit pricey, but he only makes 3 a year so long as the Winter isn't too harsh and he's not spending all his time hunting and fishing for daily survival. Oh and of course they're true bypass, you know, because the tone is so much better and I need to have it totally transparent or my tone suffers and I have an untreated mental illness known as OCD."

Boutique Queen #2: "Yeah I had one of those. They're ok, but not totally true bypass like the one I got from a guy who lives in a cave in North Carolina. He makes them out of old cold-war-era military field radios and black-and-white Philco TVs, but only the rare models with the orange bakelite housing, so you know it's military-spec so it can survive the coming nuclear/zombie/political/racial/Syrian Refugee/natural disaster/apocalypse. Completely hand-wired with NOS vintage push-back wire he gets from his Great-Uncle in Poland who sources it from military hardware from the former Soviet Republics.
When you turn it off, it's just like my zero-friction no-load Tone pot is wired directly to the input circuit of my lunchbox amp. Purest tone imaginable. They're really expensive though, and the guy only made 3. Jeff Beck has one, David Gilmour has the other. My Gibson by Epiphone Les Paul has never sounded more better. He's not an electrical engineer, but he's an American, making stuff in America, so you know it's a quality piece."
Click to expand...

The real question is why does a modern tone purist need more pedals than a '90s shoegazer?
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

I believe we are still in the Golden Age of Amplification. Look at all that is available. It's never been this good.

The Music Industry as a whole has been the crapper sales-wise the last couple of years. It is cyclical IMO.

Pedals. Fun to buy. But I've had to ask myself: how many OD type pedals do I really need? I get sucked in man. I rarely play a lot of OD distortion type stuff. Yet I've got at least six of that style.

Joe is right, need to spend more time getting to know what I have.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

some_dude said:
The real question is why does a modern tone purist need more pedals than a '90s shoegazer?
Click to expand...

To be the Ultimate Boutique Tone Queen, of course.


Scott_F said:
But I've had to ask myself: how many OD type pedals do I really need?
Click to expand...

Backinnaday I HAD to have that does-everything rack processor with 31 flavors of everything because I couldn't do the truckload of 9 volts every month and nobody made a power strip that could hold all the wall warts, and the various power pedals (all 2 of them) didn't work with every brand. If you had nothing but BOSS pedals, then the BOSS power pedal or board was fine, but if you had some of these and some of those and a few of that other one, you were stuck. As well, a powered board cost as much as one or two other pedals.

So I got myself a rack with all the bells and whistles and could pretty much match tones of all the different albums and tapes and CDs I had and played along with - Alice Cooper to ZZ Top and everything in between.

128 user presets seemed like a lot. It wasn't.


When I started doing my own stuff, the need for all those various distortions dwindled. I didn't need a Machine Head tone and a Master of Reality tone and a British Steel tone and a Number Of The Beast tone and a Master of Puppets tone and a 10 from 6 tone and a Skynrd's Innards tone and a Back In Black tone and so on.
I now use 10 patches of my ADA MP-1 that cover everything from sparkling cleans to the most saturated drive I'll ever need, and the other 8 patches are stepped from almost-clean to gritty to 2-guitar rhythm to 1-guitar rhythm to 3 different levels for solos, and the TSR-12 FX unit has maybe 5 patches with the same EQ settings and chorus, chorus+reverb, chorus+delay, effect reverb (empty arena), and effect delay (canyon echoes).
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

DrNewcenstein said:
When I started doing my own stuff, the need for all those various distortions dwindled. I didn't need a Machine Head tone and a Master of Reality tone and a British Steel tone and a Number Of The Beast tone and a Master of Puppets tone and a 10 from 6 tone and a Skynrd's Innards tone and a Back In Black tone and so on.
I now use 10 patches of my ADA MP-1 that cover everything from sparkling cleans to the most saturated drive I'll ever need, and the other 8 patches are stepped from almost-clean to gritty to 2-guitar rhythm to 1-guitar rhythm to 3 different levels for solos, and the TSR-12 FX unit has maybe 5 patches with the same EQ settings and chorus, chorus+reverb, chorus+delay, effect reverb (empty arena), and effect delay (canyon echoes).
Click to expand...

Man... I couldn't imagine having all that. Back in the day I used the same tone for everything due to a mix of it being what I could afford and me being too uninformed to know any better.

I had a solid state amp and a distortion pedal. I didn't even know they made amps that distorted on their own.... thought it was all done with pedals.

First time I played a tube amp it blew my mind. It was a Dual Rectifier... and it felt like I had liquid fire under my fingers.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

I think the important term is hobby. It wasn't long ago that most pro equipment went to career musicians, semi-pro players who gigged, or beginners who wanted to be musicians. Now there's an entire class of hobbyists who don't necessarily aspire to gig and have money to spend. Sometimes quite a lot of money. If one were to look at big ticket guitar sales, say 5K-plus, I think it would turn out that most of them are being bought by affluent hobby players rather than pros. The same may hold true right down the price range to pickups & pedals. It wouldn't surprise me if hobbyists accounted for the bulk of musical equipment sales across the board. Beginners have always bought a lot of entry level equipment, that's nothing new. But now many of them- perhaps most of them- are starting out with what traditionally was considered pro gear.

Certainly from the point of view of a small builder or a big company, new pedals are a super cheap way into the market. Launching a complete line of pedals probably costs less than launching one new model of amp or guitar. Even allowing for pretty extensive R&D they're relatively simple electronically and small & cheap to manufacture, ship & stock compared to guitars or amps. They don't require retooling for woodwork or cabinetry, or demand skilled craftsmanship. Just a chassis, board and components that can be assembled fast on order overseas and released in a matter of weeks, rather than months or years. And if they don't sell well, switch to a different model fast and fairly simply. From a retailer's point of view, it doesn't require a huge investment in inventory and they're easy to store & cheap to ship, so you can stock a lot of models for a very small outlay.

And the market is gobbling them up. IMO this is due in good part to the huge variety of good sounding pedals available. Nowadays many- perhaps most- players are using pedals as their primary tone engine, rather than depending on amps for their signature sounds. All it takes is a clean amp and a handful of stomp boxes and you can have great tone. That wasn't always the norm. Until fairly recently it wasn't popular among those serious about their sound. When I was starting out it wasn't even possible.

I absolutely agree it's a golden age, for pedals & effects especially but also for musical equipment in general.
Never has so much been accessible to so many.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Gearjoneser said:
I agree with everyone who mentioned that tough times have caused guitar players to spend their expendable cash on guitar toys that fall into a comfortable price point. It's also part of the reason lunchbox amps are so popular.

Pedals have almost become like toys in a way.....like Star Wars figures or Pokémon cards.

One thing I've noticed is how little time many guitar hobbyists spend getting to know their FX on a musical level, often parting with them before using them to their full potential. It's a sign of the times, with the trend of instant gratification over creativity. It's a shame because many of these musical toys are brilliant electronic creations full of musical potential.

I think everyone who's amassed some nice FX should stop the acquisition and spend some quality time digging into the ones they already have. You'll probably stop letting some go so quickly.
Click to expand...

And there lies the secret to a lot of my pedal purchases.

Many guys over here buy a pedal based on hype and what not, and then they discover it is not for them, or they do not bother to experiment sufficient with the pedal, get fed up and sell a 2 week old pedal for 30% less than what they paid for it.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

eclecticsynergy said:
I think the important term is hobby. It wasn't long ago that most pro equipment went to career musicians, semi-pro players who gigged, or beginners who wanted to be musicians. Now there's an entire class of hobbyists who don't necessarily aspire to gig and have money to spend. Sometimes quite a lot of money. If one were to look at big ticket guitar sales, say 5K-plus, I think it would turn out that most of them are being bought by affluent hobby players rather than pros. The same may hold true right down the price range to pickups & pedals. It wouldn't surprise me if hobbyists accounted for the bulk of musical equipment sales across the board. Beginners have always bought a lot of entry level equipment, that's nothing new. But now many of them- perhaps most of them- are starting out with what traditionally was considered pro gear.
Click to expand...

While hobbyists are most likely the largest part of the market based on pure numbers (more hobbyists than pros) I think pros are getting pulled along for the ride too.

If you look back at old pictures it was pretty common to see big name guitarists using Boss, DOD, MXR, etc because it was reliable and easily available. And, while there's still a lot of pro guitarists using that stuff there's also been a slow creep of high end off-the shelf and boutique type pedals on their boards as well.

Same goes for guitars. Look closely at someone's Fender and it turns out its either a) vintage, or b) a Suhr or Anderson, or their Gibson turns out to be either a) vintage, or b) a Historic.

Same goes for amps (Matchless, /13, Suhr, Savage, Dr Z, etc).


And don't get me wrong.... there's still a lot of pros using regular gear and for a long time thought they were more immune to it than us forum types, but I've been noticing this more and more over the last number of years.
 
Last edited:
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

eclecticsynergy said:
I think the important term is hobby. It wasn't long ago that most pro equipment went to career musicians, semi-pro players who gigged, or beginners who wanted to be musicians. Now there's an entire class of hobbyists who don't necessarily aspire to gig and have money to spend. Sometimes quite a lot of money. If one were to look at big ticket guitar sales, say 5K-plus, I think it would turn out that most of them are being bought by affluent hobby players rather than pros. The same may hold true right down the price range to pickups & pedals. It wouldn't surprise me if hobbyists accounted for the bulk of musical equipment sales across the board. Beginners have always bought a lot of entry level equipment, that's nothing new. But now many of them- perhaps most of them- are starting out with what traditionally was considered pro gear.

Certainly from the point of view of a small builder or a big company, new pedals are a super cheap way into the market. Launching a complete line of pedals probably costs less than launching one new model of amp or guitar. Even allowing for pretty extensive R&D they're relatively simple electronically and small & cheap to manufacture, ship & stock compared to guitars or amps. They don't require retooling for woodwork or cabinetry, or demand skilled craftsmanship. Just a chassis, board and components that can be assembled fast on order overseas and released in a matter of weeks, rather than months or years. And if they don't sell well, switch to a different model fast and fairly simply. From a retailer's point of view, it doesn't require a huge investment in inventory and they're easy to store & cheap to ship, so you can stock a lot of models for a very small outlay.

And the market is gobbling them up. IMO this is due in good part to the huge variety of good sounding pedals available. Nowadays many- perhaps most- players are using pedals as their primary tone engine, rather than depending on amps for their signature sounds. All it takes is a clean amp and a handful of stomp boxes and you can have great tone. That wasn't always the norm. Until fairly recently it wasn't popular among those serious about their sound. When I was starting out it wasn't even possible.

I absolutely agree it's a golden age, for pedals & effects especially but also for musical equipment in general.
Never has so much been accessible to so many.
Click to expand...

Now that is a sad thought, but probably, VERY TRUE !
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

some_dude said:
While hobbyists are most likely the largest part of the market based on pure numbers (more hobbyists than pros) I think pros are getting pulled along for the ride too.

If you look back at old pictures it was pretty common to see big name guitarists using Boss, DOD, MXR, etc because it was reliable and easily available. And, while there's still a lot of pro guitarists using that stuff there's also been a slow creep of high end off-the shelf and boutique type pedals on their boards as well.

Same goes for guitars. Look closely at someone's Fender and it turns out its either a) vintage, or b) a Suhr or Anderson, or their Gibson turns out to be either a) vintage, or b) a Historic.

Same goes for amps (Matchless, /13, Suhr, Savage, Dr Z, etc).


And don't get me wrong.... there's still a lot of pros using regular gear and for a long time thought they were more immune to it than us forum types, but I've been noticing this more and more over the last number of years.
Click to expand...

Hey bro, I don't follow. What is 'regular gear' in 2016?

What does getting 'pulled along' mean? And for what ride? Unwillingly or unwittingly making gear purchases? That isn't happening. The real-time truth is that there are a now (today) a multitude of fantastic, cool and interesting choices (in contrast to when Boss, Arion, Ibanez, MXR etc. were the main choices). Professionals and hobbyists are simply enjoying those cool choices. They have the opportunity to access those choices often as peer to peer trading and internet access make it easy.

If you are referring to chasing an endless dragons tail in pursuit of a silver bullet, then I agree. But that has been going on since the '2nd' guitar brand was offered and marketed and has nothing to do with the influx of smaller gear makers. If you are a chaser, you chase what is currently available old and new. If you are a player, you play what is currently available both old and new. As far as not using the 'old standards' and instead opting for better designed instruments or amps, of course, why wouldn't someone? Particularly professionals.
 
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

I agree with everything you've said. I think we're both saying pretty much the same thing, but approaching it from totally different angles.
 
Last edited:
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

some_dude said:
While hobbyists are most likely the largest part of the market based on pure numbers (more hobbyists than pros) I think pros are getting pulled along for the ride too.

If you look back at old pictures it was pretty common to see big name guitarists using Boss, DOD, MXR, etc because it was reliable and easily available. And, while there's still a lot of pro guitarists using that stuff there's also been a slow creep of high end off-the shelf and boutique type pedals on their boards as well.

Same goes for guitars. Look closely at someone's Fender and it turns out its either a) vintage, or b) a Suhr or Anderson, or their Gibson turns out to be either a) vintage, or b) a Historic.

Same goes for amps (Matchless, /13, Suhr, Savage, Dr Z, etc).


And don't get me wrong.... there's still a lot of pros using regular gear and for a long time thought they were more immune to it than us forum types, but I've been noticing this more and more over the last number of years.
Click to expand...

I do agree. Of course in the old days what we now think of as just regular gear was the pro level gear. A stock Strat or Les Paul was top level when most of us could only afford cheap imports. It bears repeating Jol Dantzig's comment, "Believe me when I say that some of the most amazing music in history was made on equipment that's not as good as what you own right now." Some great players still use basically the same gear they used to, which by today's standards is plain. And they make it shine.

Others prefer the deluxe equipment. Didn't mean to make it sound like I think pros weren't buying and using high end gear before- there have always been big names who'd use the best, and endorse it if they were offered the chance. My point was that now hobbyists & non-pros account for a significant portion of big ticket sales. That's a fairly recent development, I think, and a big change in the market dynamic. Very pricey items that would only have sold a couple of units a year before are now selling by the hundreds. Or even thousands.

And pedals are selling by the tens of thousands.
 
Last edited:
Re: What's up with non-pedal companies getting into pedals?

Are the pro's really getting pulled along? I would think they lead the charge. Pro's don't buy what their favorite hobbyists are using but hobbyists typically have always aspired to own what the top pro's used. There certainly are guys out there who can afford the best and buy it when a Marshall Class 5 or Fender Champ or Peavey 6505M with a 1x12 cabinet will probably be sufficient for a guy whose largest venue is likely Madison Square Bedroom or a small music room in a corner of their house.

I do think it's true though, if you analysed the sales demographics you probably see more hobbyist players buying high end gear than before. To say there are less guitarists out there than 25 years ago? ....no. I think there are more than ever but with the number of gear choices available now, competition is fierce. Companies are branching out to get as many streams of revenue as possible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top