when and how many times have pearly gate changed?

[gimmieinfo]

Talking the regular production set with nickel cover gibson spaced. IF they have changed, how any times and what years did changes take place? I understand it may be unknown or the details unclear, but are there any known details as the how many times, when, and what type of changes?

 

[Chistopher]

Older ones will sound different because A2 magnets don't hold a charge all that well. That is going to be the biggest difference you will hear.

 

[jeremy]

i have a pg set that is over 25 years old and one that is about five years old, they sound basically the same.

 

[beaubrummels]

I have both old and new and they make an even sounding set. None of mine have nickel covers, but I think that would make them sound better in general, maybe tame the treble a bit.

The only change I'm aware of, which actually affected all SD pickups, is the switch from butyrate bobbins to polycarbonate. My understanding it that was to make assembly easier (they sit more evenly when screwed to the baseplate) and to survive the wax potting process better. A former employee once pointed out that butyrate, being softer, could also squeeze out of shape slightly under tension, changing the geometry of the coil, but whether an average player would detect whatever difference that makes is doubtful.

 

[freefrog]

A former employee once pointed out that butyrate, being softer, could also squeeze out of shape slightly under tension, changing the geometry of the coil, but whether an average player would detect whatever difference that makes is doubtful.

The warping of butyrate bobbins becomes detectable when the wire gets loose and pops outside the black paper tape... which makes the pickup extremely vulnerable and potentially silent because of a broken wire - been there, seen that on vintage unpotted coils. :-/

On the basis of what I've noticed while repairing pickups, I think that Seymour was initially using specifically shaped butyrate bobbins to avoid that, with "redans" instead of straight inner walls. But it didn't suffice to make butyrate harder nor more resistant to heat (because yes, wax potting is really a problem with butyrate: in my subjective experience, heat makes it melt really fast).

​To come back on topic, I'll state that the original question made me think to the following video about SH4's, which sums up my own feeling : whatever was the brand involved, I wonder if I have ever tested two passive pickups of the same "model" but of different eras with exactly the same specs and tone.
Now, it also comes down to how we perceive differences (as slight variations on a same thing or as proofs of change. Mileages may vary here)...​

https://youtu.be/mi6SR7hhjDA?si=OLU2bBwlu41Q7a4X

 

[gimmieinfo]

Speaking of butyrate, whats the deal with butyrate pickup rings? I have seen them go for stupid prices. I know that how a pickup is mounted can affect the tone quite a bit having experimented with that a lot, but do butyrate rings really affect tone and if so, in what way?

 

[switchman]

Speaking of butyrate, whats the deal with butyrate pickup rings? I have seen them go for stupid prices. I know that how a pickup is mounted can affect the tone quite a bit having experimented with that a lot, but do butyrate rings really affect tone and if so, in what way?

I thought it was the quest to get exactly the right looking cream parts for Reissue Sunburst LP's. I've seen one seller that gives a Pantone Graphic arts color code. I bought some angled rings from Philadelphia Luthier earlier this year and I saw they had Butyrate for triple the price of regular plastic. All the reviews for Butyrate were about how they look great... I'm not trying to sound snarky, I just didn't think there was a tonal component.

 

[beaubrummels]

IME the only way rings affect tone is in the height and angle they sit against the strings. For example, if you have an SG with pickups mounted to the pickguard, the pickups sit like a stair-step against the strings, with one coil closer than the other. Using rings, the top of the pickups align with the strings with both coils the same distance, which does change the sound in a noticeable way.

 

[switchman]

Yes!. All the Standards have that problem. It can usually be fixed on the neck pickup with stuffing foam under the southward facing coil (toward the bridge). I had one that for the bridge pickup I placed an angled ring on top of the pickguard then mounted the pickup through the height screw holes in both the ring and pickguard like a sandwich. Firebirds have the same problem sometimes solved with an angled riser under the metal ring.

 

[gimmieinfo]

I get the desire to look correct if it costs a good bit more. But i recall seeing those butyrate rings going for near $100 ! Gotta be more to it than looks for that kinda $.

 

[jeremy]

i cant imagine a pup ring is going to make an audible difference in tone

 

[Mincer]

Well, I think the issue is pickup tilt due to pickguard mounting. This can be fixed with 3 or 4 screw mount humbuckers, but you need to redesign baseplates for that. As a whole, the pickup mounting system on most guitars could use a redesign that solves these kinds of issues.