Where Gibson went wrong

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Boat has nailed it. It's like publicly finding fault with the babe from the local rich family we'd all secretly jump at the chance to ask out if we thought she'd ever have anything to do with us. If not for the secret attraction, the gripers would all find better things to do with their time.

(Lucky me, I'm playing the field with 4 of 'em -- 355, R9, LP Std, LP Special.)

I complain about the cost and yet don't want a Gibson.
If I were given a Gibson I'd sell it.
The only reason why I have anything Gibson related (an Epi LP) is because it's a guitar that I'm making sure stays put in my house and isn't damaged or stolen while the proper owner is in Germany.

 

[drunkinminer]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I think there is some validity to my statement because alot of Gibson owners think Gibson is the be all end all of guitars. But they are not. It was made because their seems to be alot of headstock snobbery going on around here and I'll be the first to admit that I have been guilty of it. It seems like that the Gibson guys seem to brag more about their guitars then anyone else. The way I look at it great you have a Gibson but to me that dosen't mean yours is better then mine because of construction. It just means the Gibson cost more then mine. I for one don't care if a guitar cost 300 or 3000 because to after all is said and done the question you should be asking is not what you paid for it but what you can do with it. Now having said that, that dosen't mean that I won't ever by a Gibson (like some have stated with Fender) it just means that I haven't found one that has appealed to me yet. But let me tell you when I do I won't be going around saying this is the best guitar ever either.

If Fender were so inferior as you claim would Jeff Beck, Ritchie Blackmore, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Buddy Holly, Eric Johnston, SRV, Keith Richards, Syd Barrett just to name a few have made a living useing such a CHEAP guitar as you claim. Hell alot of them have Sig models out so I would think that if they are as cheap as you claim I'm sure alot of these artist would not have agreed to for thier model. Granted alot of them also used Gibson.

One other thing stairway possiably the greatest song ever written was recorded useing a Tele. Not bad for a cheap guiter.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Apparently I'm the only who's ever expressed an opinion here! Thank God you haven't done that yourself. Really, take out the opinions on this forum, of which almost entirely consists of players saying what they like and don't like, and there is no forum.

Yup...everybody's got one, and they all stink to someone else. Sorry I ranted, there.

But facts are that both designs kick ass, just for slightly different reasons. Leo wasn't some doofus who stumbled upon a success story by accident...he refined those designs for years by listening to the people out there using them, which means those designs were very well thought out.

Besides that, were it not for Leo's work, Marshall might never have come along, and that bit of legend would be gone.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Leo wasn't some doofus who stumbled upon a success story by accident...he refined those designs for years by listening to the people out there using them, which means those designs were very well thought out.

Absolutely, I never meant to imply that. Leo had a flair for genius and succeded beyond his wildest dreams, more than another guitar designer in the world. That famous players over the decades would make some of the world's best recordings using his guitars is something he could have never predicted. He wanted a guitar that was cheap to make so that he could sell more of by undercutting the price. Many have tried but no one's ever done that better than Leo.

My main point was that Tele's & Strats have very humble beginnings, but that in the right hands, they can be magic. Some of my favorite players use(d) Strats: Hendrix, Clapton, Jeff Healey, Rory Gallagher, Ritchie Blackmore, Coco Montoya, etc. Their tones are often superb.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I think there is some validity to my statement because alot of Gibson owners think Gibson is the be all end all of guitars. But they are not. It was made because their seems to be alot of headstock snobbery going on around here and I'll be the first to admit that I have been guilty of it. It seems like that the Gibson guys seem to brag more about their guitars then anyone else.

Actually I'm one of the few here that rally to the defense of Gibson designs; we're clearly outnumbered. And my comments are prompted by some of the posts I read a couple years ago here by Strat players who basically called Gibson players tone deaf subhumans whose instruments are pure garbage & they themselves couldn't even be called musicians. They weren't laughing. They were dead serious. There's a small, but twisted segment of Fender players out there. Hey, I can admit that some of the world's best players use Fenders. These guys can't admit the same about Gibsons. No matter who you are, there's always better players than you, and some will use guitars you don't like. Fact of life.

No one likes to joke & banter more than me, and I have the utmost respect for a Fender player who is confident enough to joke back & not take anything personally. If you're secure in your beliefs & don't get offended by others who question you, I like you, regardless of what you believe. I love to see someone who's thought out their convictions, and knows that every side has flaws, including their own. That's the kind of person I respect. The ones that get upset & lose it, those are the ones I try to filter out. So if I poke & probe once in a while, just relax. I'm just looking to see who reacts. Maybe you're a proud Fender owner, and maybe you're a better guitarist than I am, so there's nothing to get mad about. What I hope to see are guys that say "Yeah, I know that, but I still like Fender better."

 

[drunkinminer]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Actually I'm one of the few here that rally to the defense of Gibson designs; we're clearly outnumbered. And my comments are prompted by some of the posts I read a couple years ago here by Strat players who basically called Gibson players tone deaf subhumans whose instruments are pure garbage & they themselves couldn't even be called musicians. They weren't laughing. They were dead serious. There's a small, but twisted segment of Fender players out there. Hey, I can admit that some of the world's best players use Fenders. These guys can't admit the same about Gibsons. No matter who you are, there's always better players than you, and some will use guitars you don't like. Fact of life.

No one likes to joke & banter more than me, and I have the utmost respect for a Fender player who is confident enough to joke back & not take anything personally. If you're secure in your beliefs & don't get offended by others who question you, I like you, regardless of what you believe. I love to see someone who's thought out their convictions, and knows that every side has flaws, including their own. That's the kind of person I respect. The ones that get upset & lose it, those are the ones I try to filter out. So if I poke & probe once in a while, just relax. I'm just looking to see who reacts. Maybe you're a proud Fender owner, and maybe you're a better guitarist than I am, so there's nothing to get mad about. What I hope to see are guys that say "Yeah, I know that, but I still like Fender better."

I for one never went as far as to say Gibson players are tone deaf nor would I ever think that. Because some of my most favorite artist use Gibson Mike Ness (from my number 1 favorite band) uses a Goldtop. If my comment offended anyone I'm sorry because it wasn't directed at all Gibson players but just the ones who seem to think that there is only one company. I can take a joke as well as the next one.

Blue I like you would be the first to criticize Fender (like you do with Gibson) because no company is perfect, they all have their flaws. I think at the end of the day we should all be happy with our choices and if someone wants to put us down because of it then that is a burden they'll have to bare.

and Blue one final thing this is for you

:beerchug:

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

There are a lot of nuts out there. They're only worth so much attention.

If Fender makes an all-mahogany H-H strat with a wider flatter fretboard and shorter scale length, I'm there.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

And, if a design doesn't have flaws, why would they change nearly everything about it? Does not compute.

Once more, re-read my post. All designs have flaws so by this computation every guitar then MUST have everything changed about it, perpetually.

But the LP wasn't changed due to design flaws, it was due to popular trends at the time. Everybody wanted mosquito-sounding guitars from Ricks to Teles and the LP couldn't do that. But about 5 years later along come Page and Bloomfield and Green and Beck et al with a heavier sound and suddenly everybody has to have an LP.

If the LP was so horribly flawed it would never have come back from the dead to become infinitely more popular than it was on the first go round.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I'm one of the few people who thinks Jimmy Page > Jimi Hendrix. And my all-time guitar hero is Slash.

So Les Pauls rule, as far as I'm concerned.

Gibson designed a lot more guitars that are truly great versus Fender or any other manufacturer. They have the LP, SG, V, Explorer. They also have the ES335 and those Hummingbirds.

Fender? Tele and Strat. That's about it. I don't think a Jazzmaster or something could go up against an SG or 335 or whatever. They rule in bass guitar design with their Jazz and P-Basses, however.

All the other "great" guitars from other manufacturers are other based on the Gibson or Fender designs.

Gibson did a lot more "right" than "wrong".

 

[blueman335]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

I'm one of the few people who thinks Jimmy Page > Jimi Hendrix. And my all-time guitar hero is Slash. So Les Pauls rule, as far as I'm concerned.

Gibson designed a lot more guitars that are truly great versus Fender or any other manufacturer. They have the LP, SG, V, Explorer. They also have the ES335 and those Hummingbirds.

Fender? Tele and Strat. That's about it. I don't think a Jazzmaster or something could go up against an SG or 335 or whatever. All the other "great" guitars from other manufacturers are other based on the Gibson or Fender designs.

Gibson did a lot more "right" than "wrong".

+1. That's why all I want is Gibson designs, much more to choose from. They have long-term successful solid, semi, & full hollowbodies, HB's & P-90's, single cutaways/double cutaways, thinlines/thick bodies, archtops, flat-tops, etc. No other company has been this good with so many different designs, year after year. There is no greater heritage in electric guitars.

As far as which guitarists I want to play like, they're the late 1960's British blues/rock players, and they all used LP's, SG's, and 335's: Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Kim Simmonds, Robin Trower, Mick Taylor, Jeff Beck, Luther Grosvenor, Martin Barre, Alvin Lee, etc. In the '70's a lot of them went in different directions, but during the '60's...wow! Must have been something in the water in England back then.

My frustration with Gibson is that they did so much from the late 1940's to mid 1960's, absolutely phenomenal, but in a lot of ways have coasted since then. I truly want to see Gibson continue their history of innovation & quality. They need to keep the Ted McCarty spirit alive. They can balance traditional lines with updated versions of those (like a Super SG) and have a larger place in the market. Gibson's done much more "right" than "wrong", and a lot of the wrong stuff is easily avoided. Blunders & neglect have let Fender dominate the market, even though they don't have nearly as much to offer in the way of variety. That needs to be addressed. My approach to Gibson is tough love.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Once more, re-read my post. All designs have flaws so by this computation every guitar then MUST have everything changed about it, perpetually.

+1. Every design is a compromise. Emphasize one thing, and another suffers.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

In terms of continuing innovation, Gibson is a victim of its own success. The old designs are so hugely popular that they get booed any time they come up with something new. The Blues Hawk/Night Hawk series was pretty cool but got discontinued for one. They're also the ones putting out robotic and digital guitars so it's not as if they're not trying.

Probably their most successful recent new design is the 336/356/339 series, what I call the pocket 335's. It's not exactly a major departure but I think combining the semi-hollow (which Gibson also invented) with the size of a solidbody is a great idea. I've played a few 336's and they were all great. And they look really, really cool.

 

[theboatcandream]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

The Hawks need to come back.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Probably their most successful recent new design is the 336/356/339 series, what I call the pocket 335's. It's not exactly a major departure but I think combining the semi-hollow (which Gibson also invented) with the size of a solidbody is a great idea. I've played a few 336's and they were all great. And they look really, really cool.

Those are real nice. Cost less than almost any other style Gibson makes if you get the 336 or 339.
However, Gibson didn't come up with the idea...they lifted it from Ibanez's AM series of semis which were made from 1982 or so until the early 90s.



1980's Ibby AM-200

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

That thing looks a couple inches bigger in the lower bout than a 336. I was figuring somebody was going to mention the smaller PRS semi's, which are closer.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Where Gibson went wrong

Yeah, they might be a tad bigger, and the horns are a bit sharper like on all Ibby semis, but I'd love to rock one of those.