Which Dimarzio for ESP Horizon? Ready for mods!

[Mr. Lime]

I'm currently setting up my ESP Horizon and would need a suggestion for a bridge PU suiting fusion to metal.

I would like to stay with Dimarzio since I really like their neck PUs and found the Humbcker from Hell and Bluesbucker very neat in Superstrats.
Replaced the OFR with an ABM Katana tremolo which is completley made out of brass. On another Jackson I found the new tremolo to steal quite a lot of highs but on the ESP their are plenty left.

Now I have a Tone Zone installed which I find okay. I dig the Norton with ceramic magnet I have in my Jackson Soloist for it's harmonic overtones which I miss with the Tone Zone.
The Norten feels very inspiring when soloing and sounds more complex than most of the other pickups I have tried.

I like the idea of having an AlNiCo magnet in the ESP since most of my other guitars have ceramic.

Didn't liked the EVO2 in any guitar I have tried and the Chrunch lab is also quite picky. Haven't put a Chrunch Lab into the ESP yet but I hated it with an ABM Katana equipped Jackson with the same wood configuration. Alder wings, curved maple top, maple neck through and ebony fingerboard. It's a rather bright guitar so I'm looking for more thundering bass like a Chrunch Lab offers.

I usually prefer hotter outputs but I guess anything from Dimarzio's output scale from ~320 to 420 might do the trick.

I'm open for mod suggestions since the Norton with ceramic turned out so well! Any suggestions for mag swap with specific models?


What do you guys think about a D-Sonic or Mo Joe?
Dominion, Steve's Special and Dreamcatcher might be interesting too..

Thanks in advance.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I like the Breed and the AT-1 myself, but that's in the context of fattening bolt-on Superstrats.
Might be a bit corpulent in a Horizon.

I've seen posts from players who liked the Transition. Haven't used it myself though.

I think the complexity you like in the Norton may be the hybrid quality of its coils.
Have you thought about trying A8 in it, or a double thick A8?
Or going back to the original A5, or a double A5?
To me, A5 has more of the bouncy alnico feel than A8.

 

[dave74]

Another one to consider is the Sonic Xtacy. They sell it without the expensive covers now.

 

[Mr. Lime]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Well my Horizon is still very trebly with a Tone Zone, so corpulent is basically what I'm looking for.
Tone Zone has also 2 different wounded coils when I remeber right?
Currently it's really hard to get Dimarzio pickups in europe due to suppy problems and covid.
I have better chances on older models but the AT-1 or Breed are might worth a try.

I tried A8 in the Norton but didn't liked it in the Jackson Soloist. There was something annoying in the mids that felt wrong.

A3, A4 and A6 are on the way to me for further experiments.

 

[dave74]

if you found the tonezone too bright then you need a super3 for higher putput more compressed,,,,,,,,,,,or dreamcatcher for more medium output and less compressed.

both of those have slightly chopped treble

 

[JB_From_Hell]

The only experience I have with the CL is in an old JP6 (basswood, bolt on maple), but it’s fantastic.

I believe we’ve discussed the ceramic Norton, but I’d try it in there, especially since you already have one. Your Jackson and my PRS with that pickup are worlds apart construction wise, but it kills in both.

 

[devastone]

If you like the Norton with a ceramic mag, but want an alnico magnet, why not just use a plain Norton? One of my favorites. Or, as suggested, if you want hot and fat, the Super 3 is all that with great harmonics and tight bottom, super fun to play pickup.

 

[Mr. Lime]

The only experience I have with the CL is in an old JP6 (basswood, bolt on maple), but it’s fantastic.

I believe we’ve discussed the ceramic Norton, but I’d try it in there, especially since you already have one. Your Jackson and my PRS with that pickup are worlds apart construction wise, but it kills in both.

Absolutly - thanks again for that hint!

Part of me thinks a stock Norton might do the trick, another part doesn't want to have two guitars that similar as there are so much other model out there..

If you like the Norton with a ceramic mag, but want an alnico magnet, why not just use a plain Norton? One of my favorites. Or, as suggested, if you want hot and fat, the Super 3 is all that with great harmonics and tight bottom, super fun to play pickup.

I'm afraid that it might be too compressed. I recently put an EMG SA/SA/89 Set into my US BC Rich St-3 which sounds suprisingly good (hated 81 in pretty much every guitar I tried). Has a good growl now but isn't dynamic like most of my other guitars. The Bill Lawrence L500XL I have in a Washburn Falcon is also fun to play and sounds decent but lacks dynamic and I'm not even sure if it isn't a L-version. Had to measure the resistance..

 

[Mr. Lime]

I think the complexity you like in the Norton may be the hybrid quality of its coils.
Have you thought about trying A8 in it, or a double thick A8?
Or going back to the original A5, or a double A5?
To me, A5 has more of the bouncy alnico feel than A8.

I once tried double thick ceramic in a Full Shred but didn't like the outcome. Although it sounded not bad it felt too much of anything.
Not sure how a doubled a5 would perform?
I expect double A8 to be overkill as well, have you tried that with a certain pickup?

 

[Gtrjunior]

I’m going to suggest an A2 mag swap. I think it tames the high end nicely and has plenty of complex mids. I love that mag.

 

[Mr. Lime]

I just purchased a The Breed pickup. It seems DiMarzio discontinued this one and some people write that it's basically a darker Norton. While take a view days /weeks until it arrives..
Meanwhile I tried the Crunch Lab in the ESP and as expected I didn't like it. It's got nice tight low end but there's something in the high mids I can't stand. It was interesting sounding in a Gibson SG Supreme before but sounded too thin.

AlNiCo 2 is something I never tried. In which pickup does it work best for high gain stuff? I had rather put it into the vintage genre.

 

[dave74]

D'activator-X is great in a bright guitar. The output is huge but it's spectrum is not as compressed as many other high output models. It's darker in the mids too.

 

[Gtrjunior]

I just purchased a The Breed pickup. It seems DiMarzio discontinued this one and some people write that it's basically a darker Norton. While take a view days /weeks until it arrives..
Meanwhile I tried the Crunch Lab in the ESP and as expected I didn't like it. It's got nice tight low end but there's something in the high mids I can't stand. It was interesting sounding in a Gibson SG Supreme before but sounded too thin.

AlNiCo 2 is something I never tried. In which pickup does it work best for high gain stuff? I had rather put it into the vintage genre.

I avoided it for that reason for a long time too.
But about a year ago I had a Duncan Custom (ceramic) in my LP which I liked but didn’t love.
So I figured why not. I swapped a RC A2 into it and completely fell in love.
Many people will tell you that it had a loose low end. And while it’s definitely not as tight as ceramic it’s still plenty tight. At least for me it is. I consider myself to be a hard rock player. Not really a “metal” player. So for me it’s plenty tight for my needs.

 

[Mr. Lime]

I will order an A2 next time, a lot of people seem to prefer Duncan's Custom Custom over the ceramic magnet Custom model.

Unfortunatly I received a message that the Breed I ordered isn't available. So I have to find another option.

Is the Dominion the same pickup as the Breed?
Spec wise they only really differ in their magnet.

 

[Juanhanglo]

I just purchased a The Breed pickup. It seems DiMarzio discontinued this one and some people write that it's basically a darker Norton. While take a view days /weeks until it arrives..
Meanwhile I tried the Crunch Lab in the ESP and as expected I didn't like it. It's got nice tight low end but there's something in the high mids I can't stand. It was interesting sounding in a Gibson SG Supreme before but sounded too thin.

AlNiCo 2 is something I never tried. In which pickup does it work best for high gain stuff? I had rather put it into the vintage genre.

You can order dimarzios direct from them (if you live in the u.s.a.). It takes about 2 weeks from order to delivery.

i got a set of breeds in a custom color a few months ago. It took 8 days from call/email to delivery. They still make them on a custom order basis.

A dominion is a breed with a ceramic magnet. Its a bit brighter and tighter than the breed. Give that a try if the breed is too warm.
Take advantage of their exchange policy if you can.

 

[Mr. Lime]

I live in Austria, Europe.
I still wait for almost a year for an EJ Custom I ordered. It's currently really hard to get DiMarzios shipped to europe, every retailer tells me so.

Just realized that the Dominion and AT-1 seem to be really close to the Breed, but they have Virtual Vintage to tame the highs.
Basically a Dominion with A5 should give us an AT-1 with hex screws I assume?

How is the Virtual Vintage technology implemented in a Dominion? I can't find a decent description how this looks like or how to remove it if desired?


I assume that a Dominion would be a great base for trying different magnets.

 

[Juanhanglo]

I live in Austria, Europe.
I still wait for almost a year for an EJ Custom I ordered. It's currently really hard to get DiMarzios shipped to europe, every retailer tells me so.

Just realized that the Dominion and AT-1 seem to be really close to the Breed, but they have Virtual Vintage to tame the highs.
Basically a Dominion with A5 should give us an AT-1 with hex screws I assume?

How is the Virtual Vintage technology implemented in a Dominion? I can't find a decent description how this looks like or how to remove it if desired?


I assume that a Dominion would be a great base for trying different magnets.

Have you tried any american dealers like banjomikez? He gets them in a few weeks time, and then its a shipment to you, whatever that takes.

Do not follow the published specs, they are not that representative of the final product.

The at1 is a symetrical wound pickup, the norton is dual resonance and has way more harmonics.

My norton had less fat mids and more highs than the breed. The bass seems tighter too.


A dominion with an a5 = a breed. Not sure if it has virtual vintage tech though.


The 3 patents that dimarzio had were:

dual resonance, which is simply winding the 2 coils with different wire gauges, or amounts of the same gauge wire.

Virtual vintage is where they put allen head grub screws in the underside of the plastic bobbins, between the pole pieces. This increases the inductance of the pickup. This adds power, cuts highs, and increases mids IN GENERAL. Its another tool to tune pickups, or get multiple pickups from the same wind.

air technology inserts an air gap between the poles and magnet. It weakens the output and softens the attack a bit.

I believe they are all expired now.

 

[Mr. Lime]

Thanks for the explanation.
I finally found an ebay dealer who had a zebra dominion stock. Shipping , customs and tax increased the price but it should arrive in two weeks..

The Dominion has Patent: 5,908,998, which is Virtual Vintage related.

• Magnet: ceramic
• Output mV: 360.
• DC Resistance: 16.5 Kohm

• -Treble: 6.0.
• -Mid: 9.0.
• -Bass: 7.0.

Virtual Vintage
hex screws

Breed:

• Magnet: Alnico 5
• Output mV: 356.
• DC Resistance: 16.32 Kohm

• -Treble: 6.5.
• -Mid: 9.0.
• -Bass: 8.0.

no patent
hex screws


AT-1:

• Magnet: Alnico 5
• Output mV: 320.
• DC Resistance: 16.5 Kohm

• -Treble: 5.0.
• -Mid: 8.0.
• -Bass: 8.0.

Virtual Vintage and Airbucker
slugs and fillister screws


None of them has uneven coil winds, so I expet them to be rather similar to each other.
So VV are just allen screws in the underside of the bobbins which can be removed easily?