ElUnoAstuto
New member
Power tubes or preamp tubes? Which would have more of an impact in a high gain situation? Bedroom levels VS cranked?
Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
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Metalman_666
Well-known member
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
I suppose JLagoon is right. Most of the time it's all preamp distortion and when amps get turned up louder the power tubes distort and add to the mix.
But then there are amps like some Dr. Z ones that rely on volume (and therefore power tube distortion) for their high gain tones. On those amps the volume control is also gain so to speak, right?
I suppose JLagoon is right. Most of the time it's all preamp distortion and when amps get turned up louder the power tubes distort and add to the mix.
But then there are amps like some Dr. Z ones that rely on volume (and therefore power tube distortion) for their high gain tones. On those amps the volume control is also gain so to speak, right?
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
I'd say preamp tubes and the bias of the power tubes. Personally, I don't like any 6L6 or EL-34 amp that lacks a bias pot. When it's set so the amp is tightest and boldest, the overall sound is optimized, regardless of what brand the power tubes are.
For highgain amps, I've always liked the GT12AX7C the best. They're high output, but are tight and defined. The GT12AX7M's can be a little muddy in highgain amps, but sound really good in non mastervolume amps.
I'd say preamp tubes and the bias of the power tubes. Personally, I don't like any 6L6 or EL-34 amp that lacks a bias pot. When it's set so the amp is tightest and boldest, the overall sound is optimized, regardless of what brand the power tubes are.
For highgain amps, I've always liked the GT12AX7C the best. They're high output, but are tight and defined. The GT12AX7M's can be a little muddy in highgain amps, but sound really good in non mastervolume amps.
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
I'd say it's a balance.
The preamp is where alot of the gain and tone shaping happens, but the final sculpting happens in the power section. If you slave a preamp into several different power sections you'll be able to hear the difference it can make....and quite often it's more than simply EL34 vs 6L6. The best example I can think regarding this is the changes that happen in the power section of a Rectifier when you switch between modern and vintage high gain.
I'd say it's a balance.
The preamp is where alot of the gain and tone shaping happens, but the final sculpting happens in the power section. If you slave a preamp into several different power sections you'll be able to hear the difference it can make....and quite often it's more than simply EL34 vs 6L6. The best example I can think regarding this is the changes that happen in the power section of a Rectifier when you switch between modern and vintage high gain.
Robert Delahunt
Showmasterologist
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
It all depends, in my opinion, about how you want it to sound. In my opinion, pre makes it a tad muddy if overused, post sounds better. But using both together sounds more solid and meaty.
ElUnoAstuto said:
It all depends, in my opinion, about how you want it to sound. In my opinion, pre makes it a tad muddy if overused, post sounds better. But using both together sounds more solid and meaty.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
High gain amps (Dual Recto, SLO-100, 5150, etc) get their gain from the preamp section. The power section provides volume and color to the tone, especially when turned up.
High gain amps (Dual Recto, SLO-100, 5150, etc) get their gain from the preamp section. The power section provides volume and color to the tone, especially when turned up.
SlyFoxx
Glossless
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
You really can't get high gain without that cascade pre amp thing...so yeah it's the pre amp. Unless you are using an external stomp box or amp model box. But that's just emulating the cascade pre-amp so that's basicly the same thing.
You really can't get high gain without that cascade pre amp thing...so yeah it's the pre amp. Unless you are using an external stomp box or amp model box. But that's just emulating the cascade pre-amp so that's basicly the same thing.
baritone
Well-known member
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
My head doesn't have any controls on it except for the on/off switch. When I use a guitar with hotter pickups or I use any pedal for a boosting effect, it's the power tubes that get all fuzzed up, I think. They don't get really grainy fuzzy, but I can get a really clean chug when palm-muting. I usually mix this with a little pedal distortion. I am still not totally familiar with the realm of speaker breakup.
My head doesn't have any controls on it except for the on/off switch. When I use a guitar with hotter pickups or I use any pedal for a boosting effect, it's the power tubes that get all fuzzed up, I think. They don't get really grainy fuzzy, but I can get a really clean chug when palm-muting. I usually mix this with a little pedal distortion. I am still not totally familiar with the realm of speaker breakup.
Loserchief
SwingingIdiot
Re: Which has more impact in high gain: pre or power?
Preamp distortion is what you mainly hear in today's high gain amps. It's aggressive, a bit buzzy(depending on tubes used) and there is usually lots of it available. Poweramp distortion is more smooth,warmer and more complex. Add both of them together in a high preamp gain + high poweramp volume situation and you'll get the massive gain coming from the pre smoothed out and warmed up from the poweramp.
At bedroom levels it's pretty much all preamp distortion since you just can't crank the poweramp, that's why most bigger tubeamps sound harsh and fizzy at low levels.
Preamp distortion is what you mainly hear in today's high gain amps. It's aggressive, a bit buzzy(depending on tubes used) and there is usually lots of it available. Poweramp distortion is more smooth,warmer and more complex. Add both of them together in a high preamp gain + high poweramp volume situation and you'll get the massive gain coming from the pre smoothed out and warmed up from the poweramp.
At bedroom levels it's pretty much all preamp distortion since you just can't crank the poweramp, that's why most bigger tubeamps sound harsh and fizzy at low levels.
