Which HBs for an SG?

[Metaphysical]

I've got an Epiphone G400 with a decent acoustic tone, yet I'm on my 3rd bridge pickup and 2nd neck pickup and I HATE the sound. I'm hoping some people here can give me some feedback.

Basically, I want something that's clear and full, with good clean sounds and a rich sound when the gain's turned up a bit. I don't care about getting some super distorted death metal sounds or getting a million different push/pull or toggle options. My main thing is getting some prettier psychadelic clean/mild overdrive tones, but I would like to bang out some sludgy grungy stoner rock every now and then too. If I could play stuff from Black Sabbath, the Doors, and the Cure on the same axe and sound good doing it, I'd be happy.

What I've tried so far (and hated).

Stock Epi pickups: The neck was muddy but sounded ok with all knobs up. The bridge was ok on mild overdrive, but was too mushy under moderate gain and sounded like crap clean. Couldn't get a clean sound anywhere that I really liked.

JB in bridge: I loved the sound under moderate gain for thrashy rhythm and for solos, but hated everything else about it. The clean sound was bad before, but with the JB it was totally unusable.

GFS Vintage 59s: I bought them thinking that a vintage PAF type was the way to go, but these are just plain mushy and boring. The clean sounds are muddy and bland, while the distorted sounds are dull and lacking in bite and harmonics. The neck is only a slight improvement over the stock pickup and the bridge sounds like Angus Young through a cheap transistor radio. These will be going on ebay soon and good riddance to them.

If I don't find something that works, I'm probably going to sell this guitar. I've already got a modded Tele with P90s in it that I love, as well as an Invader-only Strat that's blowing me away. I'd like to use the SG for thicker, trippier, jazzier sounds. Basically, I want it to sound like an ES 335 with schizophrenia. So... :feedback:

 

[thucydides]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

I'm guessing the problem w/the GFSs isn't so much the attempt to be vintage as the fact that they are just plain crummy pups? If so, I'd consider the SD 59s, at least in the neck. I use one in my Hamer, and it's thick and warm w/o being too woofy. However, the Jazz is also great in the neck, I had a Jazz neck in an SG, and it was perfect. More clarity than the 59, less prone to be overly bassy. If I had to choose for an SG, I'd pick the Jazz (My Hamer is a bit brighter).

Bridge: The 59 is fine, but if you want more thickness, you might try one of the Custom series. I just dropped a Custom 5 in the Hamer, and it is thicker than a 59, but a lot of people really like the Custom, so you might want to hear from them. The nice thing re the Custom series is that by changing magnets (cheap to do), you can shift from model to model.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

have you messed with the pickup heights at all to be sure they were dialed in as sweet as they can? ...

i also worry that you might have some other aspect of that guitar that just isnt gonna really cut it

if you are ok with those aspects, maybe a matched set of jazz ... both the neck and bridge

other than that C5 in the bridge could be cool too

t4d

 

[blueman335]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

Don't sell your guitar! You just need some high-quality PU's, and then match them to yoru wood. You'd probably have to do the same thing to a Gibson SG too. I've got a few Epi SG Stds (G-400) and have done times many times. The GFS's have a poor reputation on this forum, so that's part of the problem. The JB is a love/hate thing, with many guys on each side (I don't like it at all). Here's what's worked for me in my SG's (going for similar tones as you want):

Vintage sound:
- pair of SD '59's
- Phat CatN/'59B
- Gibson 490R (with an A5)/490T (with an A4)
- Dimarzio PAF/PAF Pro

Medium to high output bridge:
- DiMarzio Bluesbucker/Fred
- SD JazzN/C5
- Gibson 490R (with an A5)/498T (with an A4)
- Gibson (Epi Elite) 50SR/60ST

I use 250K's on the bridge PU's (for warmth) & 500K pots on the neck (for brightness). You get a fuller sounding bridge by using 250K's and/or warmer magnets (A2, A3, A4). Use magnets to change your EQ in the direction you want it to go. Check old threads about magnet EQ's. This is easy when you know what to do. Epi SG's are a lot of guitar for the money, and I've got mine sounding very nice. Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

You want a pair of AHP-2s, Alnico Pro II.

You really didn't test enough yet to give up on the guitar. You only tested one high-quality pickup yet.

 

[Diocletian]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

Custom 5. I have one in my Epi SG (it's a 310 not a 400) and it's brilliant.

 

[scottish]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

my 1st choice would be a set of aph2s as uOpt said

my 2nd choice would be a jazz neck and 59 bridge

 

[mjarema414]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

IMO if you sell the guitar, you're probably not going to get much. A lot of the tone/sound has to do with the wood of the guitar. It won't sound like a 335 or a real SG because of the wood. An example I can give, my SG standard sounds much thicker than my SG 61 reissue. THe neck is fatter and the guitar heavier. New pickups really did wonders for this guitar but not so much for my 61 reissue as it is brighter and thinner sounding. I can recommend trying a vintage electronic upgrade by RS guitarworks. This might help you sound more clear/transparent. This kit uses cts pots and Jensen paper in oil caps. The kit is around 80.00 and would probably help your guitar a lot. However, from my experience, good wood really helps the tone and warmth of the instrument.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

I sort of agree with what the others have said. If you love the SG, keep it and improve its electric tone . But if you don't love it: sell it and get a better guitar.

I only upgrade pickups in guitars that play great and have a great natural resonance...like my made in Japan Fender Squiers.

SG's have a thin twangy tone because the bodies are thin and the necks are long.

Derek Trucks gets a great tone out of his SG and he uses alnico 2 pickups similar to the Duncan Seth Lovers.

Eric Clapton got a fabulous tone from his SG with Cream using the stock pickups which would have been virtually identical to Duncan 59B's.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

my SG standard sounds much thicker than my SG 61 reissue. THe neck is fatter and the guitar heavier. New pickups really did wonders for this guitar but not so much for my 61 reissue as it is brighter and thinner sounding.

SG's can be a challenge, as they don't have the tone & sustain of a LP. But for motivation, I've always thought about the players you have gotten wonderful rich tones from their SG's (starting with Clapton in Cream). It can be done, even on an Epi.

Usually a PAF type PU is fine on the neck, but if more warmth is needed you could try a bridge version ('59B). Or put in an A4 magnet. In an LP these may be too dark, but on an SG, they could be ideal to compensate for the thin body.

On the bridge, a C5 with 250K pots is a warm, powerful PU. Lots of fans, including me. You could try a CC there too (A2 magnet) which would smooth out the highs. I don't like thin, tinny bridge PU's, and by trying some magnets & pots, I've been able to get my SG's sounding as full and rich as a lot of LP's. I'm sure you can do it too.

 

[iron_iguana]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

I have Gibson 57's in both the bridge and neck of my 61 resissue SG (stock) and I love them. It is the only guitar I own that I haven't messed with the pickups because it is perfect as is. Anyone know the SD pickup that sounds like a 57?

 

[lex666]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

C5 in the bridge and '59 in the neck might be just what you're looking for.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

i was gonna say Alnico II based pups too - maybe a PG set - but he already seemed to have unfavorable feelings about 'warm' or 'mushy' etc ...

i am more wondering if the wood on that guitar is not the highest grade and he is really hearing the effects of that

 

[uOpt]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

i was gonna say Alnico II based pups too - maybe a PG set - but he already seemed to have unfavorable feelings about 'warm' or 'mushy' etc ...

i am more wondering if the wood on that guitar is not the highest grade and he is really hearing the effects of that

The APHs are more like "extremely even" with balls in the bass, a very round, compact, integrated sound. The right thing to drive a crazy amp. Driving a crazy amp from anything but such a smooth sound comes out badly.

Of course his guitar might suck, and his bridge absolutely certainly does, but he didn't confirm that yet. Ordering at least a Gotoh right now ($20 on Ebay) is certainly the first thing to do.

 

[Metaphysical]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

Well, I couldn't sleep last night and, in a last ditch effort, decided to "Peter Green" the 4 conductor GFS pickups at 4 AM to try and get something interesting. So I opened it up to swap the black and the green wires only to find it was already "Greened!." Turns out that with GFS, green is hot and black is ground, but I wired it according to SD diagrams by mistake. Sounds fine now in the neck and I finally have my smooth cleans, but that bridge still lacks some muscle. I still think I'll swap out that bridge pickup at some point for a Custom or somesuch thing, but for now I can live with what I've got.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Those GFS aren't Duncan quality, but they're not bad for "bargain" pickups once wired correctly. As for the wood on my guitar, it's a set neck, all mahogany SG. It's VERY similar to a real Gibson, and I'm sure the only reason this particular hunk of wood says Epiphone on it instead of Gibson is because it has an ugly grain pattern. As said before, the acoustic tone is nice. I can live with that, though I'd love to refinish it in a non-transparent red someday.

 

[scottish]

Re: Which HBs for an SG?

hmm, i havent used gfs pups in a while but i thought they had the same color coding as duncans. guess not. anyways, glad you are half way to solving your problem.