Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I

iim7v7im7

New member
Hi,

I am having Heritage build me a custom H535 semi-hollow body. On the positive side, I can spec. any pickups that I like. On the down side, I need to make decisions in the absence of playing, seeing and hearing the instrument. I wanted to solicit opinions from this pick-up forum on options that I should consider?

My Rig:
I currently play a CS Nocaster NOS with stock pick-ups and a 7/8 scale shaped Tele (made by Valley Arts) with Lollar P-90s. I am looking to add a humbucker sound to my palette. I play pimarily blues and sometimes some old 1970s steely dan/larry carlton type stuff. I have a Fender clone amp based on a 6V6-AB763 circuit (Allen Accomplice)that I set just below the point of break-up.

The Tone:
I am looking for a pickup with dynamics that can keep the amp clean when picked lightly and push it over the edge when I dig in. I tend not to like "dark" or "muddy" sounding pick-ups. I am however looking for smoothness and warmth that my single coils and P-90s cannot provide. I know that the guitar itself can influence this, and I cannot speak to the nature of an instrument which I cannot hear or play. I will however, have it made with 500k pots with .02 uf caps. I like some warmth, string separation and detail when played clean and I like creamy, smooth distortion with bloom and sustain that has the capacity to generate a bit of a "growl" when provoked. I never play louder than at small club levels as well.

The Contenders:
I have identified via the Internet a number of PAFs that appear to be popular and have advocates:
Bareknuckles - The Mule
DiMarzio -36th Anniversary PAF
Duncan - Antiquity, Seth Lover and 59s
Fralin - Pure PAF
Holmes - H450/455
Lollar - Imperial Low Wind, Imperial Standard Wind
ThroBak - SLE-101

The Question:
There are of course others that can be added to this list, but these seem to be always mentioned by Les Paul and ES-335 players on the Internet. Given my rig, the tone that I am seeking, the style of music and the type of instrument they will be placed, what would you pick and why? Additionally, if there are others which I should consider, please suggest them.

Much Appreciated,

Bob
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

Welcome to the forum.:) In my 335 semi clone I have a 59'er (B) AP2 (N). The 59'er maybe to bright for your needs. In my guitar it takes me to early 70's Freddie King land. Sounds like your looking for something w/t a A2 mag. ( The Seth & Ant. I believe both use a A2, While the 59'er has a A5. The AP2 in the neck has a nice jazz like warmth to it, But in a bridge app. it's not a vintage sounding PuP ,Or more so it doesn't have that vintage vibe like the Seth or Ant. will. I've never had a Seth or Ant. in any of my guitars, But I've heard them in Les Pauls. In a LP they are warm & smooth. I think your on the right track with them. I'm sure someone w/t these PuPs in a 335 will chime in and explain how they differ .:D
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

The Throbak's by Jon Gundry are incredibly accurate, right down to the slug 101 and leesona 102 machines. I have spoken with Mr. Gundry at length about it, and while he is arrogant and his pickups are about 3x as much as a normal duncan '59, he is INCREDIBLY dedicated to his work and it shows. He went and bought the machine from Heritage after it was abandoned in the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo, restored it, and owns a Leesona 102 as well, but without the mods that Duncan did to make it more consistent. (Timers and rotation counters, etc.) He does in fact use NOS wire from the 50s, and has a small supply of it left. The general consensus is that he makes an incredibly accurate pickup, because all the components are there, and his business is run by people who will do anything to get a real-deal PAF but don't have the $2k it may cost to get one in decent shape. (Think of it almost as a 50s PAF that found a time travel machine and you have the idea.)

Anyway, they are $400 to $600 / set, depending on what you want, but the sound through a good amp is amazing. They are adaptable for a fender blonde to a marshall stack, but they're not really intended for something like say.. a KRANK amp. One word of advice is that Jon is a stickler for vintage-correct... whereas with Seymour, DiMarzio, and even other companies that are "boutique" like Bare Knuckle, Skatterbrane, Wolfetone, etc., you can get a 4-conductor wiring setup for splitting and phasing and circuit changes, Throbak, to the best of my knowledge, will only do a single-conductor wiring. However, because you are using a Heritage, and Heritage has a deal over the machine used, I would try to see if I could get a small discount for those pickups... after all Heritage has first priority to buy back the Slug 101 in the even they desire it. On a final note, make sure you can pick the wiring wind you want and the type of wire you want too. New wire, or NOS from the 50s... output levels (He offers 2 or 3 main models and will custom wind to your output level as well), and you can even pick what type of magnet you want.

As for actual sound, Throbaks IMHO come closest to a true-blue PAF sound... however don't count out Duncan and other companies for your needs. What I would do is listen to samples of LP's from other sites and compare what sound you like best. Then work from there with little modifications here and there until you get the variation of PAF you like. (I myself am partial to brobuckers in the bridge of 10 to 11k to get definition and enough low-end to even out the vintage mid-high problem... and 500k pots for it as well.) Try different pots and caps too, it's a small incremental change, but small improvements do add up.

Jason

My recommendations: Throbaks, SD Antiquities, Brobuckers,
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I've got a few 335's, and there's nothing like a pair of '59's for clarity & color, good clean or overdriven.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

Thanks guys....

Too many good choices..:-), :-/, :-(

Here is a comparison of 59s and Seth Lovers in a H535. To my ears the 59s are bit brighter and less smooth than the Seth Lovers (give a listen). I like the smoothness of the SH-55, but the top end of the 59s can create a bit of crunch. Between these two, I am guessing (and I mean guessing!) that I might like the SH-55s better. On the other hand, a buddy of mine had SH-55s come stock in his Hamer Artist and they were too dark and muddy and he replaced them with DiMarzio Eric Johnson and I think a JB. He has different taste than me though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnyHc3Cnp-k

The problem is, this is through a JTM45 clone and not a Fender type circuit, the guitar is either clean or distorted. I like to live on the edge. I will set my amp up with my guitar volume knob set at 7-8 and find the point where my amp will respond to pick attack and go into break-up. When I need more, I roll up the volume to 10, switch to the bridge which is a bit hotter or use a boost or pedal in front.

I want string to string separation even when the amp is overdriving a bit. I am not looking for that single coil sparkle, but when I pick lightly to get clean sounds I want some high end over the mid-range warmth. I tend to read online that this is a characteristic of lower wind A2 based pickups. Is this true or can a A5 based pickup achieve this as well. How do the Seth Lovers and the Antiquity differ? Additiionally, I read all sorts of stuff regarding potting vs. no potting and its effect on either damping detail or runaway squealing PUs. I never play above small club volume (imagine a deluxe reverb set to 4 to 6 max).

The Throbaks sound great (website description and all). I have had a great experience with Jason Lollar's P-90s so I am wondering about them as well.

Perhaps I don't want a set, but individual pickups?

Sorry to ramble here, but I really struggling to make a correct choice in a bit of an emperical vacuum. I guess worst comes to worst. Tweak pots, caps, pickup height and amp settings and get back to the music...:-)

Bob
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

'59's have A5 magnets, which have more treble, and therefore more clarity & note definition. PG's, Seth's, A2P's, etc have A2 magents which are mid heavy & can be muddy sometimes, especially in the neck slot.

What I do with my bridge '59's is use 250K pots, which takes off a little treble and makes the mids more prominent (500K's on the neck).
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

blueman335 said:
'59's have A5 magnets, which have more treble, and therefore more clarity & note definition. PG's, Seth's, A2P's, etc have A2 magents which are mid heavy & can be muddy sometimes, especially in the neck slot.

What I do with my bridge '59's is use 250K pots, which takes off a little treble and makes the mids more prominent (500K's on the neck).
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 59s to my ears are overall better pickups... You could change the pot in the guitar from a 500K to a 250K or just turn the tone knob down a bit more than you normally would on that pickup.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

You can order the Seymour Duncan Antiquities with every magnet you want from Duncan Custom Shop with no upcharge. Currently i use a Stock neck (degaussed A2) and a full A2 in the neck.
You could go with an Deguassed A5 in the neck (i love my Seth Lover with A5 to death) and a full A2 Bridge Ant -best of both worlds.
In short: The Seth Lover are the standard factory version of the Custom Shop Ants. The Ants slightly vary in resistance since they are randomly made.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I'd order a Custom Seth Lover set with an AlNiCo 4 magnet in the neck and AlNiCo 8 magnet in the bridge. That'll be the best option without breaking the bank.

You can make you order also to get good pots and caps here:

http://www.wymoreguitars.com/

Tell him you're a fellow forumite and there's a special price for everything.

HTH,
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I have a set of the Holmes humbuckers in my 335 and they'll do all of the tones you describe - everything from clean to growl. But they're $700 a set. I'd contact MJ in the Duncan Custom Shop and have her wind something similar. Maybe an Antiquity set with a stronger bridge pickup and full strength alnico 2 magnets like the Seth Lover or something like that.

I like the Duncan 59 set - but I like the growl and mids of alnico 2 better. And I seem to be able to get a cleaner tone with less un-needed bass from my neck pickup with alnico 2.
 
Last edited:
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I've always wondered what a set of Gibson Burstbucker Type 1 & 2 would sound like in a 335.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I am going to assume that your custom order guitar employs the traditional woods of a 50s Gibson thinline. Specifically, I mean a one-piece mahogany neck rather than three-piece maple (not counting the headstock "wings").

It seems to me that you seek the cosmetic and audio mojo of metal-covered humbuckers with single conductor plus braided shield output cable. My first suggestion is to check out the PRS website to see what they currently fit to their Thinline models.

As a fellow Nocaster reissue owner, you doubtless appreciate the results of simulated component ageing. This ought to direct you towards the SD Antiquity range and/or Gibson Burstbuckers.

Good luck.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I have a 535 Classic with the 'regular' 59s installed and I've A/B'd that guitar with a 535 equipped with Seth Lovers. Just like the YouTube comparison you've linked to there is hardly ANY difference (I wonder though why the guy from Wolfe guitars uses the middle and neck position only when he plays the Seth Lovers and not with the '59s...)

Considering the fact that Seth Lovers are quite a bit more expensive, I'd go for the simplest solution: factory installed '59s, just like all the Heritage 535 and 150 Classic models. Keep in mind that with the high quality pickups we are comparing here (there are probably no bad ones among the brands mentioned in this thread) it is extremely hard to make a decision and that your sound is probably much more influenced by your very own fingers. Here's some of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFYX-X2b0o8&feature=channel_page
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

Jacques said:
Considering the fact that Seth Lovers are quite a bit more expensive, I'd go for the simplest solution: factory installed '59s... your sound is probably much more influenced by your very own fingers.
Click to expand...


+1. Go for the most practical solution, and you just may not like the Seth's quite as much anyways. Fingers and picking are a large part of every guitarist's sound. Just duplicating someone's gear doesn't mean you'll sound like him.
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

Thanks for posting that. That guy's a good player, though some of his explanations were painful to endure. It looks like the Type 1 is a definite winner in that guitar. My old shrink called the Type 3 a "death metal" pickup; now I think I get it.

Must... buy... semi... hollow... with... Type... 1... in... neck... ugh...
 
Re: Which PAFs for a Heritage H535 (Like a ES-335)?

I dont want to hijack this thread, but ...

does anybody use Gibson Burstbucker Pro in 335?
 
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