Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

[darthphineas]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

It's kinda hard to tell from the video, but it looks like Satchel is using the Modern buckers. Are the guys from "Plenty Heavy" (is that the name of the band?) using Classic buckers or the Modern Fluence buckers?

Both using Classics.

Yes. That's Plenty Heavy. Look up Greg Marra...played with Paul Gilbert, Bruce Bouillet and others.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

If you think that a practical demonstration will lead to the defiance of physics, then I will leave the burden of proving that to you.

Provided that you understand that translates to just about everyone that you are speaking from the vacuum of an experiment more so than hands-on, or rather ears-on....then I'm fine with your reply.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

It is a fact of physics that ceramic will increase the flux density at the string, increasing the signal voltage, while the noise level remains unchanged. It is also a fact that the ceramic will lower the overall inductance of the coil(s). So it will seem like the noise floor is lower, but the reality is that you have a) increased the signal voltage, but b) lowered the overall voltage. So an experiment would agree with your observation, it's your explanation that I don't agree with.

I find it hard to believe you don't understand what I'm saying. Please stop referring to the s/n ratio. Please stop referring to the ceramic's gauss strength making the pickup louder.

Step 1: Listen to the noise floor of a symmetrically constructed Alnico-loaded humbucker, without playing the guitar at all, moving around the room.

Step 2. Without changing ANY settings on the amp to compensate for this louder output that I'm asking you not to talk about, do the same with the Ceramic. Then report back which one had the lower noise floor as you moved around the room.

Step 3. Tell me I was wrong.

 

[wagz]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

Both using Classics.

Yes. That's Plenty Heavy. Look up Greg Marra...played with Paul Gilbert, Bruce Bouillet and others.

Ok. Thanks.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

Ok. Thank you for pointing that out. I will try to keep those things about the distances in mind when demoing the pickups. Yesterday, I even adjusted the heights of the pickups on one of the Ibanez guitars I was checking out for this very casual sort of comparison. They were much too high. Now, I didn't break out rulers, digital calipers, or audio meters to measure variables such as height, distance, string gauges, output or many of the other variables. But, I can tell you that, casually demoing my guitars and the ones in the shop, I seemed to be getting about the same level of output on many of the guitars. And, still certain ceramic-equipped guitars were quieter than the ones with AlNiCo pickups, although overall levels seemed to be about the same. And, by "quieter", I mean dead quiet - better s/n ratio. In many cases, it wasn't even close. I don't recall coming across even one dead quiet guitar that didn't have dual slug pole pieces and ceramics, yesterday. To account for all of the variables that factor into why those guitars are that quiet - I simply didn't have them time to do it yesterday because I was busy repairing guitars and helping customers. And, I won't even pretend to have the tools or expertise to address every factor in this equation.

#1. Be certain to listen a little more to guys like Falbo, who has been in the business and has designed things and works with engineers and winders. Also listen to other players that include a first-hand experience based in part on their ears.

#2. Be sure to use measuring tools to make sure you are listening to things in as close as an even basis as you can. Even if it's just pickup height and pole piece height. I have a few articles in the Tech Tips section of my site that cover practical benefits I've learned firsthand from measuring tools. Even if it's a little ruler with 1/64" increments.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

Observing something is not the same as understanding why something happens.

You can observe things all you want, maybe you have been observing things for thirty years in the industry, but that does not mean you understand it. Man observed fire for thousands of years before he understood the chemical processes of combustion.

 

[wagz]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

#1. Be certain to listen a little more to guys like Falbo, who has been in the business and has designed things and works with engineers and winders. Also listen to other players that include a first-hand experience based in part on their ears.

#2. Be sure to use measuring tools to make sure you are listening to things in as close as an even basis as you can. Even if it's just pickup height and pole piece height. I have a few articles in the Tech Tips section of my site that cover practical benefits I've learned firsthand from measuring tools. Even if it's a little ruler with 1/64" increments.

I'm listening and paying attention to what Frank says because I can tell he is very knowledgeable and experienced. Also, what he has said regarding ceramic vs. alnico lines up with my casual comparisons. About your second point, regarding guitar adjustments, I've actually been getting into measurement tools a bit more, lately. In the past, I've mostly just gone by feel, sound, and "eyeballing it". But, I'm trying to up my levels of repeat-ability when adjusting guitars. In certain cases, uniformity is the goal. So, I'll be checking out your Tech Tips (Thanks, in advance, for providing these!) to see what I can learn. When/if I move beyond just casually comparing noise floors of these pickups in these guitars, I expect that I certainly will break out the tools of measurement to even the scales and get hard numbers.

Honestly, I figured that the pickup manufacturers would have already tested these things and would provide for us the specifics regarding the expected noise for their pickup models. I don't even need hard numbers. I just want to know which models of their full size, passive, humbucking pickups that they make are the quietest. They could even do a scale, like the Duncan output meter. I just asked here hoping to get a sort of consensus on which available models are really quiet, according to you guys' experience.

I realize that this is a hassle. But, I'm actually learning a lot by coming here. So, thanks everybody that has participated by contributing specs and models to check out!

 

[Aceman]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

It is a fact of physics that ....

For all the engineers and physicists out there, please stop the "univariate" thinking. You are arguing about a single variable in at least a ten variable equation, with lots of interactions. FAIL.

And then there are the Psychoacoustics of it all, which is how you perceive all the maths. And it isn't how the maths say it will be.

And I'm still watching a guy making videos in a room with enough magnetic fields to give you brain cancer just watching it...

:smack:

 

[Mincer]

Re: Which passive full size humbuckers have the best signal to noise ratio?

This thread has passed the point of being useful here. Disagree all you want, but this is de-volving into something that I don't like. Please, in future threads, please feel free to disagree with someone without having to insult their experience. Or just block the offending person (s).