Which PRS SE?

[Mandroid]

I'm trying to decide between 5 PRS SE guitar models:

Soapbar
Singlecut
245
Mark Tremonti(the 1st one, not the custom)
Santana


If I don't like the pickups in them, I'd like to replace them with aftermarket ones.

I don't know much about modding guitars aside from the fact that I picked PRS because I heard they were smooth playing guitars and I believe I can get them at a decently used price.


I also would like to setup the guitar to Standard C tuning.
Which means that a shorter scale guitar would provide less tension with the beefier string gauges, if I'm correct?

I'd like for the guitar to run the gamut in sound. From bluegrass to jazz to metalcore. Basically I'd like to do some singer/songwriter stuff on it and also get real heavy as well.
A wide variety of sounds would be splendid if possible.

The pickup configuration for all 5 guitars is HH except for the soap bar which are both P90s.
I just found out about things like coil splitting, coil taps, phase switches, TBX knobs, and S-1 switches.

If there's anything better in terms of playability and construction than a PRS SE at $300, please let me know.
I'm definitely willing to look into other avenues. Although I'd like to stay away from strat copies.

Thank you for your time.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Which PRS SE?

These models aren't all that different, in that they're all set neck mahogany guitars with roots in Gibson designs.

The 245, Soapbar, and the Santana will have 24.5" scale, as opposed to the others having the regular PRS 25" scale. The Santana also has an 11.5" radius as opposed to the usual PRS 10" radius, and so feels the most like Gibsons, which usually have 24.75" scales and 12" radii.

The Tremonti specs have varied over time but generally it's similar to the Singlecut, with the main exception being that the Tremonti has a Gibson-style 4 knob layout.

The humbuckers in these guitars are either going to be the 245 or the Treble/Bass. To my ears, these aren't terribly different. They're basic humbuckers that do the job but aren't particularly special.

In stock form, the most versatile sonically out of your choices would be the Soapbar, just because P90s are more versatile than the SE humbuckers. PRS stock P90s are actually pretty decent.

Yes, shorter scale means less string tension vs. longer scale, if you keep the same string gauges.

Since your sounds might go all the way to twang (bluegrass), you might also want to consider the PRS SE Clint Lowery, which has a 25.5" scale length. That's the Fender scale length. While it's still a set neck mahogany guitar, the 25.5 will get you closer to twang than the shorter scale lengths. The Clint Lowery also comes stock with a fully intonatable wraparaound bridge, which to me is a big deal since PRS stock wraparound bridges usually can't be intonated at the individual saddle level.

If you're sure you're going to mod the guitars, then really any of these guitars would be decent choices b/c sonic versatility is going to come from pickups. You can't get more versatile than the Duncan P-Rails set. Wire those for series/parallel/split, and you have many, many sonic choices.

Tip: If you're replacing SE tuners with locking ones, the Grover 406 mini locking rotomatic or Schaller M6 locking ones will drop in without requiring drilling. If you're replacing SE nuts, get the Graphtech PT-6643-00 one, which is made for PRS SE.

Another tip: Old PRS SE's are really good values. I'm talking about the first generation SE Santanas, the ones with forearm contours. The old SE Soapbar IIs had the same bodies with forearm contours. You can get both these models wicked cheap.

 

[Mandroid]

Re: Which PRS SE?

Thank you for your wealth of knowledge and information.

I'll make sure to go to GC later today, and pick up some guitars that are closest to the 24.5" scale.

This might seem obvious, but with 4 knobs isn't there more tonal possibilities when modding when compared to a 2 knob set up?
Although I do prefer the aesthetic simplicity of the 2 knob.

I looked up the Lowery on ebay, it's going for $425. So that's out of my price range. Although buying an adjustable bridge would come out to around the same price if you started at $300 or less.

I looked up PRS's intonation with their non adjustable stop tails. Some people say they can go to drop C or even C standard. Some say stay in standard tuning.
If I were to get it setup by a guitar tech, would it make a difference?

There seems to be so many SE Santana guitars that were released.
Do you mean this one?

How do you think the 1st release compares with the latest model?

BTW, are you from mass, you used the term wicked.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Which PRS SE?

1st version as in Korean made ones? I have had two, the Cu24 & Cu22, the cu22 didnt have beveled edges like the american made ones, not sure about the present day Indonesian made specs. They are really excellent guitars at $300. The fretwork is great, finishing also is done good. Pickups are not that great.

The nut material is not great & the slots were factory cut to only accept 9's, so expect some work to be done there. Also the stoptail bridge is non adjustable for intonation on the older models unlike the american ones. The bridge material is nickel & will go green depending on climate or your sweat. Also, P90s wouldn't be my first choice for metalcore, plus i'm guessing you will need to expand the cavities hole to install regular size humbuckers.

Something else to look for is the ESP LTD 400 series, some of those came with duncan pickups stock & I'd say were better overall hardware wise in stock form.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Which PRS SE?

OP, 4 knobs can have more possibilities than 2, but they may or may not be useful. My favorite "trick" with 4-knob setups is to roll the volume down on one pickup (usually the neck) so that one pickup is clean and the other is dirty, if the amp is set dirty. I believe Eddie Van Halen did this on his Flying V for "Hot for Teacher".

You can also go to town with various push-pull combinations of 4 knobs, but personally I don't find it that useful to have 17 different sounds because really I'm only going to use maybe 3 or 4 in real life. Also, more complexity = more stuff to break, easier to miswire, etc.

While you're at GC, try playing some Gibsons to see if you like the 4 knob setup. I happen to be comfortable with it, but I'm also comfortable with anything on down to just 1 volume knob and 1 pickup. If you have a good pickup, you can get different tones just from different volume knob settings.

The PRS non-intonatable bridge is made for the factory setup, i.e., E standard tuning, whatever the standard PRS string gauges are. The farther you deviate from that - C Standard is pretty far - the greater the likelihood that the non-intonatable bridge won't have good intonation for your setup. A guitar tech wouldn't be able to do much with a non-intonatable bridge; it looks like the PRS version doesn't even have the small screws on high and low E sides that let other wraparound bridges at least adjust very coarsely. The PRS bridge looks just flat-out not intonatable at all.

Yes, that's the right 1st generation SE Santana you're looking at. To make things even more confusing, the first year run (2001, I believe) didn't have forearm contours, it was just a flat top. From 2002 onwards of the 1st generation, the SE Santana had a forearm contour. That SE Santana was actually the same thing as the "SE Standard" sold during the same time, only that the Santana had slash inlays vs the dot inlays on the SE Standard. So from that time period, you actually have a few choices - SE Santana, SE Standard, SE Soapbar II.

I went to school in Mass and picked up "wicked" there

Finally, I always consider modifications (parts, guitar tech fees) to be part of the cost a guitar. A $300 guitar is such only if you leave it in its original condition. Lately I've been trying to buy guitars that require as few modifications as possible b/c shopping for parts and getting techs to do work aren't the only costs - time is money, too.

Enjoy!

 

[Mandroid]

Re: Which PRS SE?

Thanks guys.

I'll definitely look into the ESP.

Before I go to GC...

About the SE Santana Standard:

It has a tremolo bridge which is different from the stop tail in terms how it can be intonated.
So I can set it up to play in Standard C, without any fuss. Is that right?

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Which PRS SE?

+1 on longer scale for low tunings. OP, probably a misprint in your last post but just to be clear- you'll want to check out 25½" scale models, not 24¾".

As for tailoring your pickup blend, four knobs give you an infinite range of possibilities, whereas with two knobs you can only combine pickups equally. (Though you can alter the balance a bit by raising & lowering pickups, you can't adjust it on the fly while playing.) Some players love having this capability and for others it isn't that important. IMO more flexibility would be a better arrangement even if you don't use it very often. All four of my PRSs have only two knobs and I miss having the option sometimes; I have to pick up one of my other guitars for that.

For intonation, I'd say it would be an advantage to be able to adjust the strings individually. That's probably especially true for drop tunings.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Which PRS SE?

The material they used in making the floating bridges is bit fussy. The screws tend to strip themselves if you adjust them at full tension in standard tuning, both the saddle height & backforth ones, i found that out the hard way. Not that its impossible to adjust, just be aware of it. Their floating bridge stability is quite good though, locking tuners, new nut & lubrication should keep it in tune much better.

 

[stratguy23]

Re: Which PRS SE?

Yes, the PRS floating bridges are going to be intonatable. If you want that but prefer a hardtail feel, just block the bridge with a Tremol-no or wood block.

Note that the floating bridge may have a different height off the body compared to the wraparound bridge. I found this to be the case, anyway, with the 1st generation SEs. The wraparound bridge was high off the body like a Gibson bridge, while the floating bridge had low height, very much a Fender feel.

You may want to try the guitars on with a strap. Unlike the other guitars in your list, the Santana is sort of like an SG in that the top strap button is farther away from the headstock, so that the neck, for a right-handed player, will be more to the left.

 

[Mandroid]

Re: Which PRS SE?

+1 on longer scale for low tunings. OP, probably a misprint in your last post but just to be clear- you'll want to check out 25½" scale models, not 24¾".

Just my luck, I was under the impression that shorter scales were better for dropped tunings.

I'm faced with the dilemma of trying to choose the right guitar for this purpose while keeping the price to a minimum.

Stop tails are no good and I can't seem to find an affordable PRS with a 25.5" scale. Bummer.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Which PRS SE?

Even the PRS standard 25" scale feels a bit different from Gibson 24¾" scale, and will be slightly better for droptune. The SE line is great value for the money- I wouldn't let the scale length deter you. There are people playing Gibsons in dropped tunings. It may be a pretty loose feel in C, but not impossible I think.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Which PRS SE?

The 245's are great. I can tell you why I personally don't like the others as much, although they're good guitars too.

Soapbar- From what I have gathered, you cannot fit aftermarket pickups in those cavities. If I can't change the pickups, I don't buy the guitar.

Singlecut- Like the 245, but with a strange scale-length for a Les Paul style guitar. The 245 is a better combination of those attributes, and has the more versatile control knob configuration.

Santana- Don't like the way the new version balances on my leg, and don't like tremolos on those guitars.

Mark Tremonti- Same scale length weirdness as the Singlecut

 

[Mandroid]

Re: Which PRS SE?

I went to Guitar Center and played an Epiphone Les Paul and a Fender Standard Strat.

I found that I didn't like the scale length on the Epiphone as I'm used to a 25" scale which is what I have on my Washburn.
The strat felt super comfortable.
So it's definitely 25-25.5" for me from now on. I didn't know that about myself.

Thanks to all that described the different PRS models.


I've narrowed my search down to a new Kramer Assault 220 and a used chinese made Hagstrom Super Swede.
I'm guessing the Super Swede is better because of it's market price differential.

Both have tune-o-matic bridges. Will I be able to have it intonated to Standard C or will it prove to be troublesome like the PRS bridges?

 

[Hank-]

Re: Which PRS SE?

^tune o matics can be fine tuned, shouldn't have any issues as with the prs se fixed bridges. Hagstrom are nice guitars, i had my eye on their ultra swede model

 

[Synapsys]

Re: Which PRS SE?

I have a PRS SE 30th Anniversary Flametop Custom 24 with a TB-5 Custom on the bridge, a Pearly Gates on the neck, wired for push-pull pots for split/parallel wiring on each pickup. I strongly recommend this wiring, unless you're really keen on the PRS trademark split positions. On a 3-way switch like this, my current wiring brings a lot of flexibility sound-wise.

As I usually say, party on the front, business on the back. The bridge handles gain extremely well, and the PGn not only does excellent gain sounds, but the way you pick when using clean sounds can make it sound Fender-y clean, or "on the verge of breakup" sounds. A very well assembled guitar, and being used to both Gibson and Fender scale lengths, the SE does make a nice compromise, considering it's a 24-fretter, the higher frets don't feel crammed.

Here it is, next to my modded Dean Old Skull v:

 

[Mandroid]

Re: Which PRS SE?

Awesome, thanks for sharing.

I noticed the Santana models have really good sustain to them, is it the same for all PRS, or is it especially like that for the Santana guitars?


Anyhoo,
I ordered the Hagstrom, but it turns out it's B-stock, and they don't allow returns because it's a clearance item.
So I'm a little weary.