Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
+1 for Lizzy. A Deluxe was Scott Gorham's main guitar until later in his career.
+1 for Lizzy. A Deluxe was Scott Gorham's main guitar until later in his career.
Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
- Thread starter AniML
- Start date
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
...And in a fairly recent interview he spoke candidly about how bad he felt like it sounded and how poorly it was constructed...
Just saying...
...And in a fairly recent interview he spoke candidly about how bad he felt like it sounded and how poorly it was constructed...
Just saying...
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
I played a Les Paul Deluxe for a couple of years. After my '60 ES-355 got stolen I bought a '77 LP Deluxe. I kept the neck minihumbucker but put a real 50's paf that Seymour himself had rewound for me in the bridge position.
It was a very nice guitar and the mini humbucker in the neck gave me a real clear tone for chords. Not especially ballsy, and not the tone I would have preferred for soloing on the neck pickup, but a nice tone.
I played a Les Paul Deluxe for a couple of years. After my '60 ES-355 got stolen I bought a '77 LP Deluxe. I kept the neck minihumbucker but put a real 50's paf that Seymour himself had rewound for me in the bridge position.
It was a very nice guitar and the mini humbucker in the neck gave me a real clear tone for chords. Not especially ballsy, and not the tone I would have preferred for soloing on the neck pickup, but a nice tone.
tubecrunch
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Gibson had bodies leftover that were already routed for p90's, but thought hums were better sellers. P90's were going in budget models at that point. An original mini hum pickup ring gets jammed right into the p90 route. Personally, mini hums have my least favorite qualities of a hum combined with the annoying upper mids of a hot single coil. Everyone I knew routed their bridge for a standard size hum. I now laugh myself silly when I see those Lps going for big bucks because they are "all original."
Gibson had bodies leftover that were already routed for p90's, but thought hums were better sellers. P90's were going in budget models at that point. An original mini hum pickup ring gets jammed right into the p90 route. Personally, mini hums have my least favorite qualities of a hum combined with the annoying upper mids of a hot single coil. Everyone I knew routed their bridge for a standard size hum. I now laugh myself silly when I see those Lps going for big bucks because they are "all original."
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Ya know, I think Mini's can sound quite good personally but as always it depends on the guitar and the rest of the rig.
On the Amorica and 3 Snakes tours along with his typical of the time arsenal Marc ford played a couple of early 60's Epiphone Crestwood guitars with the original Mini Humbuckers and got a pretty good sound.
Ya know, I think Mini's can sound quite good personally but as always it depends on the guitar and the rest of the rig.
On the Amorica and 3 Snakes tours along with his typical of the time arsenal Marc ford played a couple of early 60's Epiphone Crestwood guitars with the original Mini Humbuckers and got a pretty good sound.
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Additional - In the early Norlin period The Epiphone construction process was moved overseas. Rather than physically moving all the stock of minihumbuckers over too (as this would have cost too much) the company simply decided to fit then to guitars being produced.....hence the Deluxe. I'm not sure about the 'existing bodies already routed' bit.
oh - and its the standards - ones factory routed for buckers - that go for the big $$. Though they're not officially Standards until 78 or so
Additional - In the early Norlin period The Epiphone construction process was moved overseas. Rather than physically moving all the stock of minihumbuckers over too (as this would have cost too much) the company simply decided to fit then to guitars being produced.....hence the Deluxe. I'm not sure about the 'existing bodies already routed' bit.
oh - and its the standards - ones factory routed for buckers - that go for the big $$. Though they're not officially Standards until 78 or so
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L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
The "all original" LPs going for big bucks that you mention -- are you talking about LPs that originally had mini humbuckers but were later routed for standard hums, or ones that did (and still do) have minis?
The "all original" LPs going for big bucks that you mention -- are you talking about LPs that originally had mini humbuckers but were later routed for standard hums, or ones that did (and still do) have minis?
tubecrunch
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
"Big bucks"- I'm referring to the snake oil salesmen in my neighborhood selling those things for $4-$5k because they're "original". They don't usually sell, but every once in a while....
As for the leftover bodies, how else do you explain that the route for p90's and original mini hums is exactly the same?
"Big bucks"- I'm referring to the snake oil salesmen in my neighborhood selling those things for $4-$5k because they're "original". They don't usually sell, but every once in a while....
As for the leftover bodies, how else do you explain that the route for p90's and original mini hums is exactly the same?
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
It wasn't due to leftover bodies. They were two separate models, designed to be two separate models from the start. The Deluxe did not come about simply because the pickup rings were based on P90 covers. And they're not just the same exact guitars with different pickups. The routs were actually quite different below the surface. The Deluxe routs made room for the pickup legs, and the P90 routs did not.
It wasn't due to leftover bodies. They were two separate models, designed to be two separate models from the start. The Deluxe did not come about simply because the pickup rings were based on P90 covers. And they're not just the same exact guitars with different pickups. The routs were actually quite different below the surface. The Deluxe routs made room for the pickup legs, and the P90 routs did not.
tubecrunch
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
I admit I got my info from a very shady source, however, consider two points. If its already routed for a p90, it would be easy to drill space for the legs. And if it's a new design, why not use similar mounting design as the full humbucker? Instead of being screwed to the top, they were lodged in the cavity. My late 78 sg was routed for minis, yet had rings that screwed in like the full size equivalent. That's the extent of my conspiracy theory.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
There is a difference between two models sharing bodies, and using leftover bodies from one model to make another model. Gibson did the former, not the latter. It wasn't that they had 1,000 bodies sitting there routed for P90's, and didn't want to waste them; they did not. They wanted to switch away from P90's to humbuckers, they had a bunch of Epiphone pickups sitting there, and they engineered a way to adapt them using a bare minimum of new parts in order to go forward with the new model. using the same body design for a decidedly new model is not the same as creating the new model just to avoid wasting leftover bodies.
To answer your question, Gibson used P90 rings as pickup rings because it allowed them to follow the same construction process, almost to the letter, for Models (i.e P90 LPs) and for Deluxes, and it allowed them to use parts they already had (P90 covers). The two models shared bodies...but it wasn't because of "leftovers." It was a decided switch to mini humbuckers, not just something that was done to keep from wasting a bunch of already-made bodies. Already-made pickups and already-stocked P90 covers, yes, but not already-made bodies. The bodies continued to be made the same way in order to suit the leftover parts. The bodies themselves were not leftovers.
Mini humbuckers were not mounted to the bodies by lodging the rings into the routs! They were mounted via internal metal mounting plates. The ring and the pickup were held in a fixed relationship to each other by a spacer for each screw, and a soldered-on nut below the ears of the baseplate. This whole "unit" screwed into the mounting plate, similarly to the way a P90 screws straight into the guitar. The dimensions of the routs for Models and Deluxes were the same, not slightly smaller on Deluxes, as would have to be the case if they were mounted by friction, the way you explained. The pickup and the ring acted as one unit. The pickup did not move up and down in relationship to the ring when you adjusted the height screws. The pickup and ring moved together as one.
Another reason Gibson used the minis is because they brightened up Pauls. There was more to it than simply using up old pickups and covers. It was a sonic consideration as well.
FWIW, Deluxes could be custom ordered with full sized humbuckers straight from the factory back then.
There is a difference between two models sharing bodies, and using leftover bodies from one model to make another model. Gibson did the former, not the latter. It wasn't that they had 1,000 bodies sitting there routed for P90's, and didn't want to waste them; they did not. They wanted to switch away from P90's to humbuckers, they had a bunch of Epiphone pickups sitting there, and they engineered a way to adapt them using a bare minimum of new parts in order to go forward with the new model. using the same body design for a decidedly new model is not the same as creating the new model just to avoid wasting leftover bodies.
To answer your question, Gibson used P90 rings as pickup rings because it allowed them to follow the same construction process, almost to the letter, for Models (i.e P90 LPs) and for Deluxes, and it allowed them to use parts they already had (P90 covers). The two models shared bodies...but it wasn't because of "leftovers." It was a decided switch to mini humbuckers, not just something that was done to keep from wasting a bunch of already-made bodies. Already-made pickups and already-stocked P90 covers, yes, but not already-made bodies. The bodies continued to be made the same way in order to suit the leftover parts. The bodies themselves were not leftovers.
Mini humbuckers were not mounted to the bodies by lodging the rings into the routs! They were mounted via internal metal mounting plates. The ring and the pickup were held in a fixed relationship to each other by a spacer for each screw, and a soldered-on nut below the ears of the baseplate. This whole "unit" screwed into the mounting plate, similarly to the way a P90 screws straight into the guitar. The dimensions of the routs for Models and Deluxes were the same, not slightly smaller on Deluxes, as would have to be the case if they were mounted by friction, the way you explained. The pickup and the ring acted as one unit. The pickup did not move up and down in relationship to the ring when you adjusted the height screws. The pickup and ring moved together as one.
Another reason Gibson used the minis is because they brightened up Pauls. There was more to it than simply using up old pickups and covers. It was a sonic consideration as well.
FWIW, Deluxes could be custom ordered with full sized humbuckers straight from the factory back then.
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Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
^ And those are the guitars that go for the big bucks. Stock Deluxes aren't really that expensive given they have pretty old wood. White Customs and Factory humbucker Deluxes are the big $$ items.
Its actually good for those of us who like the slightly different tones that the Norlin period produces. If the tone of a 59 isn't necessarily what your ideal is, then the nice old wood of this era is a nice cheap way of getting a 'almost' vintage age Les Paul
^ And those are the guitars that go for the big bucks. Stock Deluxes aren't really that expensive given they have pretty old wood. White Customs and Factory humbucker Deluxes are the big $$ items.
Its actually good for those of us who like the slightly different tones that the Norlin period produces. If the tone of a 59 isn't necessarily what your ideal is, then the nice old wood of this era is a nice cheap way of getting a 'almost' vintage age Les Paul
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
They never benefited from a proper marketing campaign or association with an iconic player ('only minihums give X the monstrous sound he craves'), but the keyword is relatively. It's hard to gauge, they seem to be just as obscure as everything else that isn't strat or tele singles or PAF-style buckers. Plus the Gibson version never sounded special enough or commanded enough mystique to warrant EVH levels of analysis and dissection.
They never benefited from a proper marketing campaign or association with an iconic player ('only minihums give X the monstrous sound he craves'), but the keyword is relatively. It's hard to gauge, they seem to be just as obscure as everything else that isn't strat or tele singles or PAF-style buckers. Plus the Gibson version never sounded special enough or commanded enough mystique to warrant EVH levels of analysis and dissection.
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Ya know, another big reason minis are unpopular is a lack of versions...
I mean look at fullsize humbuckers.
There are a half a million flavors pf PAF alone then you've got hot pickups, mid gain pickup, active pickups, super hot pickups, stupid hot pickups, low wind pickups, jazz voiced pickups, signature pickups and on and on and on...
With Mini's you've got...Mini's!
Ya know, another big reason minis are unpopular is a lack of versions...
I mean look at fullsize humbuckers.
There are a half a million flavors pf PAF alone then you've got hot pickups, mid gain pickup, active pickups, super hot pickups, stupid hot pickups, low wind pickups, jazz voiced pickups, signature pickups and on and on and on...
With Mini's you've got...Mini's!
AniML
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Thanks for all the great input so far. The reason I started this thread (as some may have realized from some other recent posts I've made) is I recently acquired a set of Gibson 70s tribute minis. As for the pups, I guess from their design and construction (alnico 2 double blade, no exposed poles) they are more accurately Firebird pickups - and not minis like the original Epiphone scaled-down PAFs.
These pickups are not available as aftermarket and are new in the 70s Tributes so it's a small gamble to do a DIY (probably Tele or Telemaster) build with a custom body with virtually nothing to go by. I am rethinking my enthusiasm over the whole idea. Maybe better to stick with a more known formula with more alternatives than being married to a 2xminihum routed body
Thanks for all the great input so far. The reason I started this thread (as some may have realized from some other recent posts I've made) is I recently acquired a set of Gibson 70s tribute minis. As for the pups, I guess from their design and construction (alnico 2 double blade, no exposed poles) they are more accurately Firebird pickups - and not minis like the original Epiphone scaled-down PAFs.
These pickups are not available as aftermarket and are new in the 70s Tributes so it's a small gamble to do a DIY (probably Tele or Telemaster) build with a custom body with virtually nothing to go by. I am rethinking my enthusiasm over the whole idea. Maybe better to stick with a more known formula with more alternatives than being married to a 2xminihum routed body
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
Look at the bright side...if you don't dig the Mini hums you can always stick something else in there!
Look at the bright side...if you don't dig the Mini hums you can always stick something else in there!
Powdered Toast Man
New member
Re: Why are minihums so relatively unpopular?
I just put an SM-1 mini HB in the neck position of my American Standard Tele and I absolutely love it! It's It's a fair bit better than the actual SD 59's that I have the neck position of both my other Telecasters.
I just put an SM-1 mini HB in the neck position of my American Standard Tele and I absolutely love it! It's It's a fair bit better than the actual SD 59's that I have the neck position of both my other Telecasters.