Why bolt on?

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Why bolt on?

It must be embarrassing to talk to non guitar people about it's design points and have to use the wrong terms to remain consistent with actual guitar lingo. It makes electric guitarists / luthiers look kinda dumb.

Not really. Every industry out there uses specific terminology that is incorrect. My point was this is what that joint is referred to. Call it the E-Z Neck Joint if you want, but it makes no difference on what it is nor how it functions. So why does it matter other than pointing out technicalities because you want to stand on a soapbox? Besides, make that change now and the waters will be further muddied after decades of calling it this. Sure the tech guy is happy but everyone else is confused! Now who looks dumb?

 

[DreX]

Re: Why bolt on?

Not really. Every industry out there uses specific terminology that is incorrect. My point was this is what that joint is referred to. Call it the E-Z Neck Joint if you want, but it makes no difference on what it is nor how it functions. So why does it matter other than pointing out technicalities because you want to stand on a soapbox?

Of the other trades I'm familiar with that have some misnomer in their jargon, I can think of some that have historical roots, subtle and goofy things, like "Java" versus "Javascript" for example, but none that are as blatantly wrong as tremolo/vibrato, screw/bolt. That's just like getting an answer completely wrong on a test, no partial credit. You don't have to have a degree from Juilliard to know the difference between vibrato and tremolo.

Suppose a luthier actually want to bolt on a neck, with the nut under the fret board or bushings in the neck, then you have a collision between the colloquial term and the technically correct one.

Besides, make that change now and the waters will be further muddied after decades of calling it this. Sure the tech guy is happy but everyone else is confused! Now who looks dumb?

If you called a whammy bar a "vibrato arm" and said "Strats have screwed on necks", nobody would be confused.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Why bolt on?

I was actually laughed out of Guitar Center because I called it a "bolt on." They said they wouldn't sell me the guitar until I came back and used the proper terminology. I was so embarrassed.

That's the real reason why I only buy set-neck and neck-thru guitars today.

 

[CTN]

Re: Why bolt on?

I hope you've never had to talk about the neck pocket on set necks then. A woodworker would balk at your lack of knowledge on the subject of mortise+tenon joinery.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why bolt on?

I was actually laughed out of Guitar Center because I called it a "bolt on." They said they wouldn't sell me the guitar until I came back and used the proper terminology. I was so embarrassed.

We're talking about discussing guitars with non guitarists, not a guitar store clerk.

 

[ExplorersRock]

Re: Why bolt on?

Of the other trades I'm familiar with that have some misnomer in their jargon, I can think of some that have historical roots, subtle and goofy things, like "Java" versus "Javascript" for example, but none that are as blatantly wrong as tremolo/vibrato, screw/bolt. That's just like getting an answer completely wrong on a test, no partial credit. You don't have to have a degree from Juilliard to know the difference between vibrato and tremolo.

I think you missed my point. People in the field know what it is and changing the name will not make a difference to them. So, again, other than appeasing the people with OCD and the few out there who are now getting into the field who care about technical terms, what does it matter? It is incorrect because someone screwed it up decades ago but calling luthiers and guitarists "dumb" because of it seems like jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

Plus, motor and engine are terms used interchangeably, but they are not the same thing. I don't consider engineers in the vehicle market dumb if they get it wrong. And in the realm of computers, we consider deleting a file erasing it but that isn't correct. The system makes the data identifying the file unidentifiable but the file is still their and can be retrieved with the right program. It requires a hard-drive program to "wipe" it (and no wiping is taking place either) that resets all of the coding back to zeros. What about those technically incorrect names?

Also, the term "cold-air-intake" refers to having the inlet for the intake go down to the ground so the heated engine bah air is avoided, but the air is not madw cold, it does not cool the incoming air, nor will it guarantee air cool enough to make a difference if the temperature of the street is very high. So it technically is misnamed and j have had to explain this to the uninformed should we rename this too?

Suppose a luthier actually want to bolt on a neck, with the nut under the fret board or bushings in the neck, then you have a collision between the colloquial term and the technically correct one.

I don't see this creating an issue for any tech/luthier worth their salt. And if someone is not involved and has an issue, why?

If you called a whammy bar a "vibrato arm" and said "Strats have screwed on necks", nobody would be confused.

Well since you brought it up, I have mentioned guitars with a "vibrato system" to non-guitarists and they had no idea what I was talking about. A description sometimes helped. Some off th understood once I said "tremolo" and some still didn't understand until I said, "whammy bar". Seems to me like colloquial terms have taken hold and a change might cause some confusion here.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why bolt on?

but calling luthiers and guitarists "dumb" because of it seems like jumping to ridiculous conclusions.
.

I said it makes us "look dumb", it doesn't make us in fact dumb.

Plus, motor and engine are terms used interchangeably, but they are not the same thing. I don't consider engineers in the vehicle market dumb if they get it wrong. And in the realm of computers, we consider deleting a file erasing it but that isn't correct. The system makes the data identifying the file unidentifiable but the file is still their and can be retrieved with the right program. It requires a hard-drive program to "wipe" it (and no wiping is taking place either) that resets all of the coding back to zeros. What about those technically incorrect names?

Also, the term "cold-air-intake" refers to having the inlet for the intake go down to the ground so the heated engine bah air is avoided, but the air is not madw cold, it does not cool the incoming air, nor will it guarantee air cool enough to make a difference if the temperature of the street is very high. So it technically is misnamed and j have had to explain this to the uninformed should we rename this too?

Like I was saying, those are more nuanced distinctions. delete/erase a file, from the POV of the user, the file is gone, regardless of the underpinnings. From a macroscopic / representational standpoint, it's not incorrect. An engine is a subset of a motor, they're not entirely different things. "cold-air-intake" implies a little idealism, ideally the air is cold. These guitar terms in question are just flat out wrong, regardless of context or POV.

I don't see this creating an issue for any tech/luthier worth their salt. And if someone is not involved and has an issue, why?

They'd probably just call it a "true bolt on neck", like "true temperament" frets.

Well since you brought it up, I have mentioned guitars with a "vibrato system" to non-guitarists and they had no idea what I was talking about. A description sometimes helped. Some off th understood once I said "tremolo" and some still didn't understand until I said, "whammy bar". Seems to me like colloquial terms have taken hold and a change might cause some confusion here.

It sounds like they don't even know what vibrato means, so no inference is even possible. You might as well call it potato at that point.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Why bolt on?

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Why bolt on?

Has anyone tried Knoppers? **** me they are sensational.

 

[CTN]

Re: Why bolt on?

I said it makes us "look dumb", it doesn't make us in fact dumb.



Like I was saying, those are more nuanced distinctions. delete/erase a file, from the POV of the user, the file is gone, regardless of the underpinnings. From a macroscopic / representational standpoint, it's not incorrect. An engine is a subset of a motor, they're not entirely different things. "cold-air-intake" implies a little idealism, ideally the air is cold. These guitar terms in question are just flat out wrong, regardless of context or POV.



They'd probably just call it a "true bolt on neck", like "true temperament" frets.



It sounds like they don't even know what vibrato means, so no inference is even possible. You might as well call it potato at that point.

you argue and bicker FAR too much. don't you have anything better to do man?

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Why bolt on?

:flush:

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Why bolt on?

We're talking about discussing guitars with non guitarists, not a fukcing guitar store clerk.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Why bolt on?

Big Flannel, Big flange. :eek13:

 

[CTN]

Re: Why bolt on?

We're talking about discussing guitars with non guitarists, not a guitar store clerk.

perhaps this will help.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

 

[DreX]

Re: Why bolt on?

you argue and bicker FAR too much. don't you have anything better to do man?

LOL, when ExplorersRock or someone else posts lots of words, that's fine, but when I do it, it's arguing and bickering. When I post a bunch of on-topic logic and reason, maybe a little opinion here and there, it's a waste of time, but you doing little more than reacting to me is somehow a good use of your time? How much time do you spend looking for that perfect image macro to berate me? Take a good long look in the mirror, friends. Or go complain about me some more in your secret club, whatever entertains you most.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Why bolt on?

LOL, when ExplorersRock or someone else posts lots of words, that's fine, but when I do it, it's arguing and bickering. Why I post a bunch of logic and reason, maybe a little opinion here and there, it's a waste of time, but you doing little more than reacting to me is somehow a good use of your time? Take a good long look in the mirror, friends. Or go complain about me some more in your secret club, whatever entertains you most.

 

[CTN]

Re: Why bolt on?

LOL, when ExplorersRock or someone else posts lots of words, that's fine, but when I do it, it's arguing and bickering. When I post a bunch of on-topic logic and reason, maybe a little opinion here and there, it's a waste of time, but you doing little more than reacting to me is somehow a good use of your time? How much time do you spend looking for that perfect image macro to berate me? Take a good long look in the mirror, friends. Or go complain about me some more in your secret club, whatever entertains you most.

It's just that you get SO hung up on tiny meaningless details, on negligible technicalities, and on empty words, and then make some sort of elaborate, long winded response, blowing things far outta proportion, which then results in a massive derailment of almost every thread you post in, because nobody gives a flying hoot about what you think about all this insignificant crap. It's painful to watch, even more painful to read. And it's getting old, quick.

Just friggin relax on all the minutiae.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why bolt on?

It's just that you get SO hung up on tiny meaningless details, on negligible technicalities, and on empty words, and then make some sort of elaborate, long winded response, blowing things far outta proportion, which then results in a massive derailment of almost every thread you post in, because nobody gives a flying hoot about what you think about all this insignificant crap - because nobody else gives a crap about it. It's painful to watch, even more painful to read. And it's getting old, quick.

Just friggin relax on all the minutiae.

You seem to think you're entitled to the last word. If you don't care, prove it and don't respond. If nobody gives a hoot, prove it, don't respond. If you respond, it's all just talk.

And as for the image macro guys, I'm apparently doing you all a favor. I don't know your life priorities are, but I apparently trump all of them, and you're welcome.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Why bolt on?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Why bolt on?

If Jimi and Stevie couldn't break it, I'd call it a pretty robust design.