Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

[millsart]

For the heck of it I checked out a Line6 X3 Live. While I'm not much of a fan of modelers I do like to check out the latest generations just to see how things are progressing as the technology grows.

Anyways I heard of the great new routing options and all the efx (98 I think) you could choose from. Sounded pretty nice

But theres aways a catch isn't there ? yep

Stupid fixed routing blocks, wah, "stomp" which basically means distortion, modulation, delay and revb, and then amp.

They did give you the option to run the mod, delay and revb after the amp at least but still.....fact remains that

FIXED ROUTING IS LAME!!!!!!!!!


Even though you've got a ton of great pedals to choose from you can only pick one at a time.

For example its got a number of fuzz units and its got a octave pedal but want to run the octave into a fuzz ? Sorry, its only one or the other. DUH!

Whats worse is the fixed routing order.

Suppose I want to have a flanger effect running into a fuzz face (just an example) Cant do it.

Suppose I want an octave before the dirt, sorry, out of luck

Maybe I want to run an OD and then a wah pedal ? nope


Except for the boss gt-8 which allows you to pick the order of effects why do designers keep tying our hands like this ?


Why force every guitarist into the trap of thinking they've got to run a wah, into dirt, into chorus, into delay ?

Sure that usually works pretty well but usually is boring.

I want freedom to create, to swap the routing of all those great effects options to come up with some crazy new sounds.


I want to be able to run two delay pedals at once if I so choose.

I want a phaser and a chorus AFTER a delay

Don't woo me with 98 effects but then not allow any creative use of them. Thats just BS if you ask me.


Given that modeled effects dont sound that amazing usually at least make up for it in fancy routing options.


Thats one thing that would make me consider modelers live, that for each patch I could swap the routings.


Playing live with pedals its a pain to switch them around so being able to have them all magically switch around with each patch would be aweomse


Why don't we have that ability ?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

The Boss GT-8/Pro allows any order you want.

 

[Artie]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

I believe its mainly because modelers are subsets of computers, and computers, (we sometimes tend to forget), are still in their relative infancy. We take computer technology for granted. Its still a brand new thing.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

Because 99.99% of the people who buy their stuff are totally cool with the fixed order.

I do agree it's kind of silly though, as my friend's Ibanez PT-5 processor at least allowed you like 3 or 4 different effect orders, and that was 14 years ago.

 

[millsart]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

I believe its mainly because modelers are subsets of computers, and computers, (we sometimes tend to forget), are still in their relative infancy. We take computer technology for granted. Its still a brand new thing.

Could it really require that much more processing power to be able to model a distortion pedal after a flanger pedal than before it though ?

Or to model two dirt pedals rather than a dirt pedal followed by a modulation pedal ?


Maybe it does, I don't know honestly. Maybe the "math" required to model a tube screamer into a fuzz face is way harder than a fuzz into a mod, into a delay into a reverb into an amp. I don't know....

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

Ha, Line 6 sucks. That's why I stick with Boss. :burnout:

 

[millsart]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

Its just so dumb to keep increasing the number of effects but not given more routing options.

Who cares if you give me 3, 10 or 20 flanger models, as long as I'm stuck having to always have them before the delay section its sort of meaningless.

A mere 20 or so effects with flexible routing will trump 200 fixed routed models

 

[Gamera]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

I like it when people think for me.

I think you're making some assumptions that it'd sound the same way it would if it were analog and you'd experience the same kinds of subtleties. I don't know if you would.

 

[millsart]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

I like it when people think for me.

I think you're making some assumptions that it'd sound the same way it would if it were analog and you'd experience the same kinds of subtleties. I don't know if you would.

You could be right, there are a world of sonic interactions (both good and bad) that occur from placing effects in various parts of an effects chain, such as a wah in front of a Ge fuzz vs a silicon fuzz for example.

Maybe all those possibilites are just beyond what modeling technology can model at the current point in time.

I've never messed around with a gt-8 much to really experiement how well it works in reality, maybe not all that well.

I'd be intrested to hear from some users as so how well it does.


Guess in the meantime I'll stick with analog pedals and the strange and wacky oscilations and such they can produce when hooked up in the "wrong" order

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

i wish someone would come out with an Anolog Multi FX unit that is meant to work with amps and not replace them like Modelers seem to try to do..

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

I believe its mainly because modelers are subsets of computers, and computers, (we sometimes tend to forget), are still in their relative infancy. We take computer technology for granted. Its still a brand new thing.

You're right about computers being pretty new relatively speaking, but that's not the reason for this particular problem.

It's not a question of computing power, or hardware resources - it's a matter of design. There is really nothing stopping Line6 or anyone else from giving us assignable routing. If we can imagine it, a software developer can program it.

That said, sometimes in software we have to choose between what the user says they want, and what will give the user the best overall experience. You have to look at each feature in your requirements, and decide which ones will cause problems when they interact with other aspects of the software. You also have to determine if a particular feature will be usable given the constraints of the system and the user's abilities. You could program POD software that gives you every possible gear configuration known to man, but if the user can't wrap their head around it, there's no point.

Here are a couple of problems I can imagine with an assignable routing design:

1. (this, IMO, is the main reason) Given the knobs and buttons a POD has, along with it's tiny screen, it would be VERY difficult for a user to move pedals around in an effects chain. The editing tools we take for granted in a computer (copy and paste, drag and drop, etc) are impossible in a POD. Can you imagine clicking little buttons and turning little knobs to move a pretend pedal around a pretend pedal board on a tiny-ass screen? It would be insanely frustrating. One of the big tenets of software design is that if the user can't figure it out, you may as well not include it.

2. By fixing the order of the effects, the software can be optimized to work with the effects in that order. Adding that extra level of complexity means making the processing of the signal that much more complicated. Since there is a finite number of CPU cycles per second, the programmers would have to sacrifice something else (effect quality, for example) to ensure that the user can get whatever effects they want in whatever order.

I believe that the designers considered these problems (along with others that are only known to them) in addition to the fact that 99% of users wouldn't give a crap what order the effects are in, and concluded to not include the feature.

 

[millsart]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

Just FYI but I realized that the Vetta series of amps does have flexible routing in that you can choose any 3 of 54 effects and put them in whichever order you want, plus a wah, delay and modultion.

So if you want a tube screamer, a flanger, and then a fuzz face, with a wah after it, you can do it.

Kudo's to line6 for giving the ability, now they just need to get it into their POD units and not $1600 amps

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

You can get a Boss GT-8 for $399 all day...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Why do modelers and mfx units limit you on routing so ?

Just FYI but I realized that the Vetta series of amps does have flexible routing in that you can choose any 3 of 54 effects and put them in whichever order you want, plus a wah, delay and modultion.

So if you want a tube screamer, a flanger, and then a fuzz face, with a wah after it, you can do it.

Kudo's to line6 for giving the ability, now they just need to get it into their POD units and not $1600 amps

Read my post. The Vetta is a big amp with a nice big display and lots of buttons. The POD is not. I can see why it was done in the Vetta and not the POD.