Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

[84camarofreak]

Ok strat people. I see alot of you guys on here dislike vintage noiseless pups. Curious why? I'll be in the market for a strat soon have played a few to find out what I like and how much I need to save. So I've played the 60s road worn with tex-mex, American standard, some American made with n3 noiseless, something with Texas specials, mim standard, and the mim deluxe players with vintage noisless. Played everything through a blues jr 3 with the same settings. I found for me the n3s suck a**. Texas specials are too hot and midsy. My favs are the vintage noisless with the tex-mex a close second. I've settled on the deluxe players because of the feel and cost (300 less). Just looking for some thoughts on if there are long term problems with the noiseless that I don't know about

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I sure as **** don't.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

nothing wrong with noiseless....they just dont sound or feel like true singles. its all a matter of getting the sound you want is all.
You are right on the money tho about tspecs about being middy but they do work very well with overdrive.
As long as your guitar sounds great acoustically, you can swap pickups and sound any way you want! So chose a guitar on its unplugged sound first...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I think it's partially an historical objection to them, since they've only started making nice sounding ones recently.....pretty much from the time Kinman came out till now.

In my limited experience with newer SD noiseless stacked pickups, my ears are still way too fine tuned to handwound vintage spec. Noise isn't much of an issue, because I rarely choose a strat or tele for high gain......only clean and midgain.

But for a player that wants an Yngwie/Blackmore highgain vintage strat sound, the noiseless are an advantage.

 

[57-classic]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

my mexican strat has fender noisless pickups, the neck pup is amazing and it has a good mid pup but the treble pup is a little warm for my taste.

 

[84camarofreak]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Thanks for the input guys. I guess like everything else in a tone quest it's all personal taste. The neck and mid are great and the warmth of the bridge is one of my fav parts. Hate twangy bridge pups. Wouldn't play a tele for anything lol.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

nothing wrong with noiseless....they just dont sound or feel like true singles. its all a matter of getting the sound you want is all.

This. I have not heard a set yet, that I like as much as the real deal. Most sound very bland to me, and don't have the same kind of attack, or touch response- it's almost like having a mildly set compressor pedal kicked on.

That said, If someone can make some that sound & respond exactly like my Rumplestiltskins or the Fralins I had, I'd be first in line to buy them.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

My buddies dad has some in one of his Strats. Don't remember the model or year, but I've always thought that guitar sounded kind of flat and dull. They really lack in the sparkle and jangle of a traditional single coil. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of stacked singles that sound great, but they just lose something without that 60 cycle hum. I don't think anyone is ever really going to capture them tones with a noiseless design.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I love these threads.

Kinman are easily as good as any normal single I've tried but I'll repeat my old argument and prepare myself for the same old attacks but true singles fans do not play out live with a high gain tone .
They're studio or bedroom players or only play low gain tones.
If they did and came across the crappy wiring and strip lighting with its associated noise in the venues I play regularly, they'd be to unable perform with their " toneful true single " because of the noise they create.
It happened to me when I bought my Suhr Strat a few years ago.
Sounded great in the house but the minute I plugged it in at the venue, it was unusable.
Who cares if there's a 5% difference if noone can hear you ?? you're missing the most important part... the audience don't know or care , they just want to hear you to play well !!!!!
The Suhr's got Kinmans ( only noiseless I've tried that I liked, but only others were Dimarzios from 6 years ago, terrible. Tried Kinman, never looked back ) and it became my main live Strat.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I've had a Lace Holy Grail set in a strat I sold a couple of years ago to a friend of mine.

I couldn't complain that much 'bout the tone as it was excellent, but 'bout the FEEL. They didn't sound lively at all. Great for the studio, but for me, that I rely on playing dynamics a lot, they just weren't cutting the mustard.

I'm on the market for a LIVELY set of active single coils. I'd like'em to sound as close as possible to Mark Knofler's in "Sultans of Swing".

I've used EMG SAs for a long time in the past and I know what to expect, but I'd like to check other makers as well.

I haven't tried any Duncan active single coils. Any comments on them?

Hey Frank, what's your take on them?

I'm all ears!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I love these threads.

Kinman are easily as good as any normal single I've tried but I'll repeat my old argument and prepare myself for the same old attacks but true singles fans do not play out live with a high gain tone .
They're studio or bedroom players or only play low gain tones.
If they did and came across the crappy wiring and strip lighting with its associated noise in the venues I play regularly, they'd be to unable perform with their " toneful true single " because of the noise they create.
It happened to me when I bought my Suhr Strat a few years ago.
Sounded great in the house but the minute I plugged it in at the venue, it was unusable.
Who cares if there's a 5% difference if noone can hear you ?? you're missing the most important part... the audience don't know or care , they just want to hear you to play well !!!!!
The Suhr's got Kinmans ( only noiseless I've tried that I liked, but only others were Dimarzios from 6 years ago, terrible. Tried Kinman, never looked back ) and it became my main live Strat.

yep you are right about playing out at gigs with a high gain tone....i personally dont use high gain tone at gigs! That doesn't make me a bedroom player. Im just a clean tone kind of musician. While its true that i generally use a gibson (read: humbuking equipped guitar) for 90% of gigs (i do around 100 per year), when i want a single coil sound thats what i go for and personally i dont ever feel the need for noiseless as much i like all the goodness that true singles offer. im pretty sure im not the only gigging musician here that feels this way too.
In the mid 90s you could not pay me to use single coils, cos i was all about high gain and lace sensors. Its all horses for courses.
Just dont make assumptions that you are the only professional musician out there. Other peoples opinions count too, and their viewpoint is just as valid as yours whether they are professional musicians or not. Not everyone plays the same way as you, not everyone has the same needs as you and not everyone should.
Noone is going to attack you for using Kinmans - a fella i gig with regularly has some in his tele and he likes them. All im saying is...ease up on the assumtions that people will attack you, and ease up on the attacks on people you might assume to be less competent than you are. There is no right answer to any of this stuff.
The more gain you use, the less the sweetness of a true single coil matters, and the more that having noiseless is a benefit. It all comes down to what matters to you personally and the style of music you play.

 

[TeleLubber]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I have 2 modified MIM Strats (with USACG replacement necks), one has a set of "Fralin's Blues" true single coils, the other has a set of Fender SCN (Samarium Cobalt Noiseless) pups.. I'm not sure what the "vintage noiseless" pups sound like, but the SCNs are much more user friendly in a gigging situation with beer signs and plasma TVs all over the place, than the Fralins are! The SCNs I have are 11k/6.5k/6.5k, which I'm pretty sure is much hotter than whatever the vintage set output specs must be..

My cover band does "Sultans of Swing", and they think I have that tone "nailed" with the SCN equipped Strat in the #2 position going direct into my Twin, and I hear/feel plenty of "life/sparkle/bloom" whatever you wanna call it in those pups.. I personally like the Fralins better, they sound really nice, but the SCNs seem to be "good enough" to convince what I consider seasoned players, and without the noise.. they also happen to be $100 bucks cheaper than the Fralins.. when you play at louder (gigging) volumes, that "flat response" you may experience with SCNs (like I did at first) disappears, and I find the SCNs to be smoother, less spikey when using higher gain/dirt boxes, esp in the bridge pup.. I dunno, maybe it's psychlogical LOL

To me.. Texas Specials sound like a cat tap dancing on tin foil with it's claws extended

FWIW, I'm also happy with the SCN set I have in one of my Teles too..

Edit: "This pickup set comes as standard equipment in Fender's American Deluxe Strats"

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

they just dont sound or feel like true singles.

^
This.

Thirty five years of modifying guitars and I have yet to hear a convincing alternative to the originals.

If somebody ever brings out a stacked-coil Strat, Tele, P90 or Jazz Bass pickup that does what I enjoy about the original single coil design, I shall gladly buy it.

 

[post toastie]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Duckbuckers.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

No objections from me. I'm all about noiseless. I like my saturation, think Warren DeMartini and Jake E. Lee. I have to have noiseless. I also like the sound of old singles. The best I have played are the Classic Stack Pluses. Best sounding "vintage spec'd" noiseless singles I've heard.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Gibson, I'm not attacking anyone mate.
I'm stating a fact that in a live situation and needing to cover the tonal range I do, ( Country, Blues, Rock, Heavy saturated leads ) , a true single coil is totally useless and even if, as seems to be the opionion of most on here, Noiseless aren't as toneful as true singles, the noise from the surroundings renders the argument moot.
Plus, the audience couldn't care less or notice the difference anyway :naughty:
If a player doesn't use extra noise inducing gain or plays in a controlled studio environment, then the world is his oyster for tone.
For me, there was no option but to go noiseless.

I haven't tried the latest Duncan noisless singles except the YJM so I can't comment on them.
I did try the older Dimarzio singles and they were tonal disasters and led to my discovery of Kinmans in 2005.

My search ended there :friday:

 

[sosomething]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

true singles fans do not play out live with a high gain tone .
They're studio or bedroom players or only play low gain tones.
If they did and came across the crappy wiring and strip lighting with its associated noise in the venues I play regularly, they'd be to unable perform with their " toneful true single " because of the noise they create.

If this gross generalization makes you feel better, that's great for you.

But you're wrong.

 

[wolf5150]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Gibson, told you I'd get attacked !!
SoSomething, take a trip over and bring your noisy but oh so toneful Strat with you for me to use at my gig this Sat.

If I can actually use it and the audience tells the difference in tone ( if they can actually hear a note I'm playing above the noise ) between your true singles and my Kinman loaded Musicman Silhouette Special I'll give you my gig fee.

Deal ?

That'll prove how " wrong " I really am. :scratchch

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

wolf, there are arguments to and for just about everything. We could sit here and debate this til were blue in the face and grow gills. I'm sure this horse has been beaten since the stacked singles started hitting the shelves.

The bottom line is, both have their merits and place in the market. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be available.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Gibson, told you I'd get attacked !!
SoSomething, take a trip over and bring your noisy but oh so toneful Strat with you for me to use at my gig this Sat.

If I can actually use it and the audience tells the difference in tone ( if they can actually hear a note I'm playing above the noise ) between your true singles and my Kinman loaded Musicman Silhouette Special I'll give you my gig fee.

Deal ?

That'll prove how " wrong " I really am. :scratchch

I don't need to prove sh1t to you. I don't even know you.

I use a USA Tele with the stock singles and a Gibson SG Classic with P-90s live at venues with bad PAs and faulty wiring all the time with my band. I'm running them through a Splawn Quick Rod / Splawn 4x12 with no noise gate and it's not that big of a problem. It only makes noise when I don't play, and that's what the volume knob is for.

I don't have a problem with noiseless singles. Use whatever ****ing pickups you want. I'm taking exception to your completely baseless comment that guys who use real single coils for high could not possibly gig professionally or be anything but a bedroom player. You're talking out of your ass, and you're incorrect.