Why is it that....

W

Warheart

New member
People seem to HATE the idea of a cheap LP copy, yet still support the idea of putting one together yourself?

I remember a thread about a LP copy from a guy that was a blue and had fake abalone binding or something, and the thread got to like 5 pages from people bashing it because it was a Chinese made LP copy?
(I can't find this thread now)

Yet at the same time, I noticed this thread from ErikH about Precision Guitar Kits:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=216853

and Metal Maniac's thread about the Dixie Jackson Kelly copy:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=212765&highlight=Jackson+Kelly&page=3

and everyone doesn't care that those are copies? What about anything from Warmoth and Stewmac?

(no ill towards Metal Maniac or ErikH, I'm not saying anything bad about what they're doing/looking at doing, and personally, I don't care. More power to you!)
 
Re: Why is it that....

I think its a matter of what is represented as. If its represented as a LP inspired/copy/clone without the Gibson name on it thats all good...I mean theres thousands of these type out there from every manufacturer, many of them great and unique guitars.

However if its represented as a Gibson with a fake Gibson logo and serial number thats illegal, and furthermore it leaves the door open to unsuspecting punters getting ripped off.

There is a huge trade in counerfeit Ibanez Jems, and lots of folks have bought these in good faith, or worse as gifts thinking they were getting the real thing...and what they get is a worthless P.O.S... Its so bad I would think twice about buying any Jem unless its from an authorised dealer and I could verify its authenticity, which in turn sucks big time if a JEM owner wants to sell their geniune JEM.

For folks that own and have saved for the real deal Les Paul, a flood of counterfeits is bad in the same way. Which I'd guess is why many feel so persoanlly opposed. Aside from it being illegal to sell as well.

You asked :) - just my opinion
 
Re: Why is it that....

Most of the time it's usually because they aren't vintage correct. Many guitar players are like this:

Scenario 1: Player wants new and innovative instrument, good tone and playability, good price point. The manufacturer delivers. Player *****es it's not innovative enough or not vintage correct.

Scenario 2: Player wants an instrument that is true to the original from the stone age. The manufacturer delivers based on what is available from that era in specs and construction technique. Player *****es it's too expensive or not innovative enough.

Looks crazy? It's true. There are plenty that don't care either way, but there are just as many that fall in to either or both of those scenarios.

There is a difference between a kit and an outright copy being sold with a specific brand on it, however.

If someone bought a kit, assembled it, made it all nice, then slapped a popular manufacturer's name on it and sold it as such, I would have an issue. Selling it as a kit guitar and saying so from the start, sell all you want.

No ill here. ;)
 
Re: Why is it that....

It annoys me just as much when someone builds their own copy of whatever guitar, then searches high and low for a waterslide decal so they can put the big name on the headstock. Because they want to feel like they have a genuine whatever, even though they know, and always will know, that they are playing a counterfeit of their own making. Maybe they they're trying to fool everyone else?

You'd think that, if someone built a guitar that they think is better than, as good as, or just really close for a fraction of the money, that they'd be proud of it and would want people to know they'd built it themselves.

Either way, it makes zero sense.
 
Re: Why is it that....

because the cheap Les Paul copy usually isn't as good as the real thing

whereas a cheap Strat copy is often just as good if not better

there are lots of great Les Paul copies out there...i know first hand that some Tokai Love Rock guitars are amazing...but most of them are still finished in poly or use a species of mahogany that's not the same as what Gibson uses...

there's a Univox les paul copy at my shop right now...natural finish...3-piece maple bolt-on neck...3-piece walnut / mahogany / maple pancake body...$300 but it sure as **** doesn't sound like a real Gibson.
 
Re: Why is it that....

IMO a Les Paul deserves more respect than a mere copy (Epi or kit) can provide. I can understand wanting one and not being able to afford one, but going cheap is not the answer.
 
Re: Why is it that....

DrNewcenstein said:
IMO a Les Paul deserves more respect than a mere copy (Epi or kit) can provide. I can understand wanting one and not being able to afford one, but going cheap is not the answer.
Click to expand...

Sure it is. I read a post on a forum once by a guy whose friend had a homemade LP copy that played better than any Gibson his mailman had ever tried.
 
Re: Why is it that....

There's a difference between a copy made by a reputable builder and a cheap imitation. I'm sure the guy who made Slash's guitars were as good as if not better than Gibson's.
I also know Warmoth makes quality parts.

However, a Warmoth LP is not a Les Paul.
 
Re: Why is it that....

I think what you said is true... People hate the idea of a "cheap" les paul copy. A project guitar is usually just that most people realize that putting together a guitar from warmoth or elswhere really isnt cheap its a project done for the sake of its own.

but cheap les paul copies are like the kit car ferraris... Sure its red and looks like a Ferrari.. But underneath its still a Fiero. Just cause someone shaped a lump of crap wood like a les paul doesnt make it one.
 
Re: Why is it that....

as far as i care a guitar is a guitar, if it sounds nice to you, and it looks nice to you does what it wants and everything, then to me, that's fine.,

if people buy copies then moan about this and that about it then that is their problem not mine. yeah ok I have moaned about my high 13th fret on my copy but thats just build quality so i aint too bothered, easy fix.

thing is If people want a true les paul then go and buy the real thing, hang it on your wall and polish it cause half the people that moan about copies are the guys who hang guitars on walls and leave them there.


it's also wierd how we get this over LP copies yet anyone can get away with murder with strat copies...
 
Re: Why is it that....

Warheart said:
People seem to HATE the idea of a cheap LP copy, yet still support the idea of putting one together yourself?

I remember a thread about a LP copy from a guy that was a blue and had fake abalone binding or something, and the thread got to like 5 pages from people bashing it because it was a Chinese made LP copy?
Click to expand...

Eh, who cares? Epiphones are Chinese-made LP copies.

The point of the home-made or Warmoth-type copy is, since you're doing it yourself, of course the workmanship will be better than anyone else could have done -- including Gibson, PRS, Carvin, small master builders, etc. 'Cause you're doing it yourself.

You're doing it yourself, and you'll either do a really great job, or at least you'll know the reason (excuse) for every screw-up on it. Yeah, everyone sees the place where you started to drill into the top for the tailpiece anchors and suddenly realized you were wayyyy off. Well, you remeasured and fixed it, didn't you? See, you're not an idiot. You were just distracted because your sister and your brother-in-law were there, and you were all talking about what to grill on Memorial Day.
 
Re: Why is it that....

I don't think that people have problems with cheaper versions of guitars until you start to do stuff like stick the wrong brand on the headstock. If you're really making a decent guitar, wouldn't you want you (or your companies) name on the headstock?
 
Re: Why is it that....

Warheart said:
I remember a thread about a LP copy from a guy that was a blue and had fake abalone binding or something, and the thread got to like 5 pages from people bashing it because it was a Chinese made LP copy?
(I can't find this thread now)
Click to expand...
My only problem with that guitar is that it was a counterfeit guitar and had Gibson written across the headstock and was being represented as an actual Gibson. I have no problem with any copies of any guitars as long as they aren't represented as the actual guitar that they are trying to copy. Basically what I am saying is, I don't have a problem with anything as long as it's not a countertfeit.
 
Re: Why is it that....

JOLLY said:
My only problem with that guitar is that it was a counterfeit guitar and had Gibson written across the headstock and was being represented as an actual Gibson. I have no problem with any copies of any guitars as long as they aren't represented as the actual guitar that they are trying to copy. Basically what I am saying is, I don't have a problem with anything as long as it's not a countertfeit.
Click to expand...

But its kinda funny. The Les Paul that Slash played the iconic Gibson that so draws so many fans to the Les Paul was a counterfeit. Yes a very good counterfeit but a counterfeit non the less.
 
Re: Why is it that....

^ which is messed up

imagine if the counterfeitter had enough faith in himself to put his own name on that headstock and get Slash something better than a Les Paul

he might be the current bigshot guitar builder...instead he's just known as some guy that copied a Les Paul that a rock star ended up liking.
 
Re: Why is it that....

Empty Pockets said:
^ which is messed up

imagine if the counterfeitter had enough faith in himself to put his own name on that headstock and get Slash something better than a Les Paul

he might be the current bigshot guitar builder...instead he's just known as some guy that copied a Les Paul that a rock star ended up liking.
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Max is a VERY well known luthier, who DOES put his name on his guitars. And, Kris Derrig would be much better known, had he not died at such an early age. He was only 32 when cancer took his life. He also put his name on his guitars.
CopyofKris_firstguitar.jpg


They are both highly regarded in the Les Paul world.
 
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Re: Why is it that....

The late Sid Poole made LP-inspired replica electric guitars in his garden shed. So "inspired" were these guitars that some very famous British Blues-Rock musicians toured using Sid's guitars and left their vintage/collectable pieces at home.

Empty Pockets said:
imagine if the counterfeiter had enough faith in himself to put his own name on that headstock and get Slash something better than a Les Paul. he might be the current bigshot guitar builder...instead he's just known as some guy that copied a Les Paul that a rock star ended up liking.
Click to expand...

EP, change the artiste name to Ted Nugent, Al DiMeola or Carlos Santana and you just described the early career of the guitar counterfeiter formerly known as Paul Reed Smith. :D
 
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Re: Why is it that....

it's a double standard. Many people will bash an Epiphone or Argile yet build something from a kit. I don't know!
 
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