Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

[blueman335]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

It's very easy to convert a single lead HB into a double lead for coil split or spin-a-split. You don't need 4 leads for that, because two of the wires are just connected to each other (red & white).

Pull back the tape over the coils, and in between them there's a wire from each coil soldered together. Take off the tape covering that, and solder a long wire to that connection, and run that down to the control cavity (I use a shielded wire, but only solder the inner part). That's your red & white wires. Proceed as normal from there.

I figured this out from a Carvin HB I had that was made for coil split, but only had 3 wires: 2 hot and a ground. Once I learned how they did that, I haven't paid extra for 4 lead PU's, or bought any more 4 lead wire.

 

[Big Mike Blues]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Braided is stock on the 59'. That's just the way it is. When I ordered my first 59' about 25 years ago I had to pay the 4-conductor upcharge.

What I do now, is look for OEM versions that have been pulled out of stock guitars that come with Duncans. A LOT of guitars come stock with a 59' in the neck. And they are usually 4-conductor (and often have the logo on the bobbins whereas I believe the stock 59' has no logo).

My local store usually carries them for a fair price, so I've bought them there.
I'll agree I think short legs and braided should be the norm, but it's a legacy product at this point.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

'Braided' as in push-back wire? I hate that. The outside of the wires touch anything electrical (pots/toggle) it can short them out. Plus it discourages people from using alternative wirings. Factory guitars typically come with the least versatile wiring possible.

 

[Big Mike Blues]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Sorry I meant to type 4 conductors should be norm

 

[blueman335]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Sorry I meant to type 4 conductors should be norm

I agree, but only a small percentage of players will ever do any kind of alternative wiring, so companies try to save a buck or two and go with single lead.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

If it's $26 extra to get a 4 conductor '59, why aren't ALL 4 cond. SD pups an extra $26?

Don't tell me that..."they do have to disrupt the production line to make it special"! That's ridiculous! Maybe if they only had one or two requests for a 4 cond. '59, but I can't imagine that that would be the case. Why don't they charge an extra fee over the cost of an Alnico 2 Pro to put a different magnet in it so they can sell it as a Jazz pup? In fact, the Jazz is even $10 cheaper (only $79 instead of $89 like most other SD pups)!

 

[Big Mike Blues]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

If it's $26 extra to get a 4 conductor '59, why aren't ALL 4 cond. SD pups an extra $26?

Don't tell me that..."they do have to disrupt the production line to make it special"! That's ridiculous! Maybe if they only had one or two requests for a 4 cond. '59, but I can't imagine that that would be the case. Why don't they charge an extra fee over the cost of an Alnico 2 Pro to put a different magnet in it so they can sell it as a Jazz pup? In fact, the Jazz is even $10 cheaper (only $79 instead of $89 like most other SD pups)!

I think in general, most guys buying 59's are not worried about the spit capabilities. It's 26 bucks retail. SDs net on that is probably 13 bux. Knowing how manufacturing lines work, I think it's reasonable.
I think it's also VERY easy to get a PAFish neck pickup from Seymour with short legs and 4 conductor that's close enough to the 59, where there's options.
WLH, PG, Jazz, Full Shred, they're not radically different IMO.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Duncan's 1000 ft roll of 4 cond lead might cost them $13. I doubt the expense difference between 1 cond and 4 is even over 50 cents.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

I think it's also VERY easy to get a PAFish neck pickup from Seymour with short legs and 4 conductor that's close enough to the 59, where there's options.
WLH, PG, Jazz, Full Shred, they're not radically different IMO.

All of those are better options than a 59 neck, for any kind of music you want to make.

 

[Big Mike Blues]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Duncan's 1000 ft roll of 4 cond lead might cost them $13. I doubt the expense difference between 1 cond and 4 is even over 50 cents.

You’d be wrong
Labor not materials is what costs money
Especially in cali

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

Duncan's 1000 ft roll of 4 cond lead might cost them $13. I doubt the expense difference between 1 cond and 4 is even over 50 cents.

I suspect that you'd be way off in that cost estimate...the cost of 4 single conductors would only be about $0.15 total, while the cost of the single conductor with braided ground would be close to $2.00. Therefore the expense difference is closer to -$1.85! Which means that it is a bit cheaper in material costs to make a 4 conductor rather than the vintage single conductor.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

You’d be wrong
Labor not materials is what costs money
Especially in cali

Yeah. 1 more minute of soldering at $20/hr really adds up to $20 extra doesn't it?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

You’d be wrong
Labor not materials is what costs money
Especially in cali

You've got a point. Labor is generally the biggest cost of most of the products we buy nowadays. So let's take a look at that:

In the single conductor pickup the labor involved with the wires would be to solder the start wire of the screw coil to the baseplate; solder the the finish wire of the screw coil to the finish wire of the slug coil and tape it off; solder the start wire of the slug coil to the hot wire of the vintage grounded cable and tape it off; solder the large braided ground of the vintage cable to the baseplate. So you've got 4 solder joints and 2 tape jobs.

With the 4 conductor pup you'd have to solder the ground to the baseplate; solder the start wire of the screw coil to the green conductor wire and tape it off; solder the finish wire of the screw coil to the red conductor and tape it off; solder the finish wire of the slug coil to the white conductor and tape it off; solder the start wire of the slug coil to the black conductor and tape it off. So you've got 5 solder joints and 4 tape jobs.

On an assembly line with well-trained and experienced professionals, to solder and tape one joint would take about 5 seconds. There are four of these so that's 20 seconds.

With the 4 conductor pickup you've got 1 more solder joint and 2 more tape jobs...so that's 10 more seconds of labor involved in assembling the 4 conductor pickup as compared to the vintage 1 conductor pickup. For the sake of argument, let's say it's an extra 30 seconds.

Let's assume these employees are paid minimum wage, but again for the sake of argument and ease of calculation, let's say they make $20.00 per hour. With the employer's employment taxes and cost of employee benefits added, it costs the employer $30.00 per hour. That's $0.50 per minute cost of labor. If the 4 conductor pickup takes 30 seconds more to build than the single conductor pickup, it costs $0.25 more for labor. But there is a savings of $1.85 in materials.

That means that the 4 conductor pickup is actually $1.60 CHEAPER to produce (labor and materials) than the vintage single conductor pickup.

Sorry, Mike. As valid as your point may be that labor is the most expensive cost, in this particular product you are incorrect.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

I think in general, most guys buying 59's are not worried about the spit capabilities. It's 26 bucks retail. SDs net on that is probably 13 bux. Knowing how manufacturing lines work, I think it's reasonable.
I think it's also VERY easy to get a PAFish neck pickup from Seymour with short legs and 4 conductor that's close enough to the 59, where there's options.
WLH, PG, Jazz, Full Shred, they're not radically different IMO.

You missed the main point I was making. Why then aren't ALL 4 conductor pickups $26.00 more than the '59?

 

[Chad]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

You all are making this way too complicated. It’s simply a break from the norm and a disruption to the normal production of the pickup. It’s an option. Take it or leave it. The problem I have is the cost. Are we sure it’s $26? I’m thinking it was only $10 or maybe $15 when I ordered that way, but it’s been a long time.

Edit: also, you’re only thinking about the actual wire and soldering process. Aside from that, also requires different packaging, possibly a different sticker on the bottom, different inventory entry, accounting, etc.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

It has jack **** to do with expenses. Duncan just does that. Like how the Jazz is $79 and the A2P is $89.

 

[Chad]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

It has jack **** to do with expenses. Duncan just does that. Like how the Jazz is $79 and the A2P is $89.

You’re comparing two different things. The MAP price of two different pickups vs an option to an existing pickup. What exactly are we taking about? Yes, there is some mystery/inconsistency to their MAP pricing of pickups, but other products and manufacturers do the same stuff.......but that’s a different topic.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

2 things that cost the company basically the same but they charge different prices. Those aren't different things.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

The $26 up charge is the difference in the price listed for each pickup on Duncan’s site.

 

[Chad]

Re: Why is the 4 conductor 59 neck so expensive?

2 things that cost the company basically the same but they charge different prices. Those aren't different things.

I edited my previous post. Think about other things in the process: different packaging, different labeling, different inventory entry, accounting, etc. That stuff = time = $.

Now go order an A2P with an A5 mag. If the dealer and others aren’t on their toes and don’t recommend a Jazz, you might get one for a $100 or more. Does it make sense as far as the final product? No way. Does it make sense as far as being a modified A2P? Yes.