why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

[Pat_rocks_and_rolls]

Hello guys i'm wondering why big guitar companies like fender, gibson and Prs don't use graphite for the nut material ?

I only bought 4 guitars in my life from big brands. A fender contemporary MIJ, an epiphone firebird VII, a gibson SG standard, finally a lespaul custom.

After this i always made myself my own instruments via musikraft, knee bodies, byo guitars and warmoth. What shocked me is the fact that those custom made guitars compared to very expensive professionally made guitars never go out of tune...

I always use Tusq nuts and locking tuners you can dive bomb with most of the knife edge tremolos without going even slightly out of tune...

If you compare nut materials, bone, ivory and ebony they have less resonating properties than graphite so why keep it the old way if it just doesn't works ? My old guitar teacher had a 68 stock strat and changed the nut for graphite it didn't changed the tone a lot but it improved the tuning stability a lot.

I don't understand what is the point of selling deficient instruments for 2000-6000$ Wouldn't this grade of instruments deserve better tuning stability ? I mean what is the point of buying this kind of instruments if you need to lubrificate the nut or if you can't use or abuse the trem ?

I understand that for vintage instruments (reissues etc...) you need to make them as original as possible but there is no excuse for the modern line of instruments...

So why isn't graphite a standard material in the music industry ?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I've had cheap plastic nuts stay in perfect tune under heavy trem use; graphite is beneficial but not necessary. Some on this forum will argue other materials sound better, whether in spite of whatever resonant properties, anecdotal or evidenced.

I think at the $2k - $6k grade you should ideally either be dictating to the builder what to use to begin with. Or, perhaps if you're willing to toss that much money at a guitar off the shelf, you're also fine with paying a tech to cut a nut of your choice and perform an individual setup. If the maker believes many will be replaced anyway based on peoples' individual nut preferences, perhaps guitar makers don't feel there's any benefit in investing in a nut that does much other than function, until the end user makes their final selection.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I prefer bone myself, not for any magical properties, but because it's easy to work with. The nut only ever makes a tonal difference on an open string anyway. I'm actually starting to prefer Gibson Z-Fans and zero frets in general.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

And of course nobody plays open strings anymore.

 

[Demanic]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

Which begs the question: Why aren't Tusq string saddles standard on more instruments?

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[Chistopher]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

Which begs the question: Why aren't Tusq string saddles standard on more instruments?

The same reason as all innovations in guitar, I guess. A lot of people don't like them because the effect they have on the tone, a lot of traditionalists don't like them for obvious reasons, there have to be a few people who don't like them for nothing more than aesthetic purposes. You probably don't see them on mid to lower range instruments because it's cheaper to do a decent job in house than a phenomenal job with another company's parts.

Sooner or later there is a good chance graphite nuts will probably catch on.

 

[Demanic]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

But as it's been said, the nut only affects the open string. The saddles affect every note played.

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[JB_From_Hell]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

And of course nobody plays open strings anymore.

Whenever I see an elastic hair band on a headstock, my attention immediately starts waning.

 

[jmh151]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I prefer bone myself, not for any magical properties, but because it's easy to work with. The nut only ever makes a tonal difference on an open string anyway. I'm actually starting to prefer Gibson Z-Fans and zero frets in general.

I love the Gibson Z- Fan nut on my Les Paul, and though I’ll get hated on for this, I also like the Gforce robot tuners

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

my Gibson came with a graphite nut
my Dean came with a PPS nut
when I looked at the characteristics of the two, they were very similar
as is Nylon, which early Gibsons had

the PPS nuts are much less expensive
are molded and have the metallic ting when dropped like a Tusq nut does
low friction, self lubricating

its mostly marketing to us dumb musicians

 

[Chistopher]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

But as it's been said, the nut only affects the open string. The saddles affect every note played.

When I mentioned my indifference about the tonality of the nut, I was not speaking for every guitar player in the world. Some people might find the tonal differences between a plastic and bone nut to be a deal breaker for buying a guitar, some might not be able to tell the difference, and some, like me, understand the differences but don't care either way.

 

[Demanic]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I understand.
But for myself, I still don't understand why they would care more about the nut, which only affects open strings, than the saddles which affect every note played.

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[Chistopher]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

That, I can't answer, but I must agree it is silly that people care more about the tonality of the nut over that of the bridge. It's also funny how people will go through hell and back to perfectly file a nut, but don't consider how the saddles affect tuning stability.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I understand.
But for myself, I still don't understand why they would care more about the nut, which only affects open strings, than the saddles which affect every note played.

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I hear you; I've replaced lots of bridges and saddles. I've only bothered to replace a nut once. I actually would idealize a locking or roller nut above graphite; but I don't even replace plastic nuts.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I believe G&L still offers graphite nuts as an option on all their guitars.

Manufacturers have a way of building things that increase profitability...using the lowest cost material that will get the job done. Bone, TUSQ and graphite all work.

Bill

 

[Clint 55]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

If tuning stability and natural lubrication are important factors in choosing a nut for you then more power to you. Tone is the most important issue for me and that's why corian is my favorite because of how balanced and resonant it is. I would be interested to know what materials you guys think are standard in the industry. All I know are the regular plastic nuts that came on all my 10 or 12 epis and squiers. I think plastic is reasonably balanced and resonant, bonus if it's not hollow.

To answer Demanic about why not tusq saddles. Having both the nut and saddles be not metal was too deadening for me. While having metal nut and saddles was too metallic. Softer nut and metal saddles seems to be the right combo for me.

To answer Chris about the nut material only affecting the sound of the open strings, that's just false. It was proven false to me after 2 months of experimenting with different materials on both the same guitar and different guitars. The instances which really proved it to me was when I shimmed a hollow plastic nut on a business card and when I made a nut out of a plastic pickup spacer. The tone of the fretted notes wouldn't go from good to total crap after the nut change if the nut only affected the open strings. Also, theoretically fabricating the property that anything that's not touching the vibrating portion of the string doesn't affect the sound is just nonsensical. What about the guitar itself? That's not directly contacting the vibrating portion of the string and yet it is partially responsible for the massive differences in sound character between models.

 

[Mincer]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

I just think plastic is cheaper. More expensive guitars (not based on traditional designs) use TUSQ and graphite. I like either of them. They aren't as easy to shape as bone, but I think they sound as good or better. Honestly, though, I like the zero fret idea. Get one made of stainless and it won't matter what nut you use or even if it is cut perfectly (most aren't anyway).

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

GFS Xavier and Carvin/Kiesel guitars come with Graphite nuts
Though I think Carvin doesn't call them Tusq

 

[Demanic]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

Clint55, it's interesting that you found that the GraphTek saddles deadened your tone. I've found the exact opposite on every guitar that I ever used them on. It just goes to show that different ears hear differently.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: why isn't graphite a standard material nut in the music industry ?

Hello guys i'm wondering why big guitar companies like fender, gibson and Prs don't use graphite for the nut material ?

Cost. It’s cheaper to use a molded plastic nut, or one made from cheaper material like mikarta.

Also the original graphite nuts are kind of soft.
These days there’s really good modern materials like GraphTech TusQ. That’s what I use for all the guitars I build.


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