why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

[these_go211]

it's highly possible i'm an idiot, but this is a serious question. tube amp users want to get the tubes cranked for their tone. but at that point your amp is too loud. so, enter the attenuators. but i tried something the other day when i was using my little big muff thru my peavey classic 50 watt. i cranked the volume, thus saturating the tubes. if i wasn't using a pedal it would have been waaaaay too loud. but once i clicked on my lbm pedal, and set the level on it low, my tone sounded great to me. it sounded better than when i had the amp at a lower volume. so, there's my question: why not just use any pedal as a sort of brake? if the goal is to get the tubes cooking, then it seems like you can achieve this, and simply control your overall volume by the pedal. i realize another component may be pushing the speakers too, but an attenuator won't be doing this either. so, why the need for attenuators or hot plates?

 

[oilpit]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

If you use a pedal like that then your cutting the original signal, so the preamp isn't hit as hard, and get less gain.

Attenuators come after everything, so all the pre/power tube saturation is there, just quieter.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

If you use a pedal like that then your cutting the original signal, so the preamp isn't hit as hard, and get have less gain.

Attenuators come after everything, so all the pre/power tube saturation is there, just quieter.

^ This is the answer, but the bottom line is getting the sound you want at the volume you want. There's many ways of doing it.

Simply turning down and using an OD works fine if you get the sound you want.

One 'secret weapon' I like to use to tame amp with an FX loop is an Alesis Nanoverb. Any outboard FX unit that has Input/Mix/Output controls on it will work. You simply put it in the FX loop, set the amp where it sounds best, then choke back the volume in between the pre and power section.
Setting the input as high as it'll go without clipping....then mixing the verb where you want it, then choking the volume down with the Output control, which acts as a secondary master volume. Those "volume boxes" you see on Ebay do the same thing, without adding any FX.

 

[aleclee]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

Short answer is that a dirt pedal is not an attenuator. This might be a good place to get some education on the subject: http://www.amptone.com/powerattenuatorfaq.htm

Like GJ said above, tone is where you find it. It's just that what you suggest does not actually get the power amp cookin'.

 

[these_go211]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

i guess i never thought about that with the way i described it i'm cutting the signal going to the amp/preamp. i'll check out the link to amptone, thanks aclee. bottom line for me is that i do hear a noticeable (positive) tone difference when i crank the amp volume and use the lbm pedal as a volume brake.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

i've heard of plenty of other dudes doing this

usually with a very transparent OD or clean boost like the OCD

doesn't really work with the amps i use but i have heard good tones created this way...again, it's what sounds good, not what "should be done"

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

If you use a pedal like that then your cutting the original signal, so the preamp isn't hit as hard, and get less gain.

Attenuators come after everything, so all the pre/power tube saturation is there, just quieter.

+1

If you put a pedal in the effects loop to cut volume you can drive the preamp tubes into distortion (this is essentially what a master volume on an amp allows you to do). No power tube distortion.

If you put a pedal in front of the amp and lower the volume you will not be getting any preamp or poweramp distortion from the tubes . . . only the pedal.

Either way you're not doing what an attenuator does (which is reduce volume AFTER the power amp, allowing power tube distortion).

 

[sosomething]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

and there you have it.

nice explanation, Stv

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

it's highly possible i'm an idiot

It is highly probable that all humans are, at one time or another, idiots.

 

[everdrone]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

Today, 04:26 AM #7 GuitarStv = yes


cranked tube sound is cranked tube sound

preamp / pedal sound is preamp sound

most people mix em to their taste, but if you have a 100 watt amp, you cant crank it in a small club in all practicality, so all ull hear is teh nasty preamp/pedal...

 

[these_go211]

Re: why not use just any pedal as an attenuator or hotplate

good explanations guys. thanks.