WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS?

[Stardust]

We've experienced tremendous inconsistency in recent weeks with the 'actual' vs. advertised' polarity (and/or direction of wind) on some of Seymour Duncan's pickup offerings, and we've inquired of them directly about it in recent days, hoping for an explanation without the courtesy of a response, but its reached the point of complete absurdity, so maybe someone here can help answer it for us.

We recently ordered and received a brand-new SD Antiquity-II Surf model here in factory-sealed packaging with the label "RW/RP Middle 1024-10" that proved to be of SOUTH polarity when tested, yet their website (see link below) clearly states that their standard (i.e., non-RW/RP) Neck and Bridge versions of that same model are also of SOUTH polarity? In other words, why isn't this "RW/RP-Middle" version of NORTH polarity?

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/vintage-output/1102409_08_10_a/

Can anyone help educate us on this subject or explain how it is that the folks at SD might go about determining "reverse" polarity?? We're certainly no experts on the subject, but we've used a simple Schatten magnetic polarity tester to personally test their various pickup offerings here including this RW/RP-Middle version that just arrived, and it is positively of SOUTH (not North) polarity. Why? Was it mis-packaged or mis-labeled? Is their published specification sheet for the Antiquity-II Surf Neck and Bridge models in error? What is so inherently complicated about South/North/South orientation? I just don't get it?

We've spent a fair bit of money on SD products in recent days, only to find that those products did not comply with their own published specifications, and in some cases, the items are or were non-returnable, which essentially leads to victimizing the consumer. Not good!

Anybody?

 

[jeremy]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

welcome to the forum!

why were the items not returnable? any sd offering from an authorized dealer is returnable or exchangeable other that custom shop offerings.

as for your surfer, the rw/rp model should be north according to the link you provided. did you get a whole set or just the middle?

what other products are you referring to?

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

Jeremy, thanks for your response.

Well, I'm certainly glad to hear that someone agrees with me on this and that I'm not losing my ever-loving mind - there was a time when I wasn't quite sure :banghead:.

As for returns/exchanges (or the return-ability of such items), there are a couple of issues worth mentioning here. First-off, SD will not accept a factory return or exchange on an item purchased from one of their dealers. The Buyer must go back through that specific dealer to get any refunds or exchanges, and in our case, that particular dealer (unbeknownst to us initially), had a 'non-refundable/non-returnable' policy on all "electronic" items including pickups. This was especially true once the items had been opened, and of course, there is no way to determine polarity without opening the packaging. In addition, there are some SD dealers or merchants out there who will accept returns within a short, established timeframe, but only if the Buyer first obtains a Return Authorization Number (RAN), and there are a limited number of those dealers who will purposefully not reply to electronic or telephonic requests for an RAN within that specified timeframe to avoid the hassles of a return. So here again, the Buyer gets victimized for the mistakes of Seymour Duncan.

The other point to be made here relates to shipping charges. Neither SD corporate or any of their dealers will typically refund or compensate Buyers for shipping costs or return shipping costs on an item, even when that item proves to be other than 'as advertised'. In other words, I'm sitting here in possession of a South polarity RW/RP-Middle pickup that is in complete and total violation of their own advertised specifications for this product (i.e., it should have been North polarity), and even if I could return or exchange it, I (not SD or their dealer) would have to absorb the cost of return shipping. We (the Buyer) would! I don't know about others, but this is completely outrageous and unacceptable to us. Its a sad state-of-affairs, but that's more than enough reason in our view NOT to buy Seymour Duncan products.

However, in closing, I will fully acknowledge or disclose the fact that the folks at SD have (on one lone occasion) provided us with suitable replacements for their errors, free of additional charge, but in this most recent instance, they have consistently refused to respond, and I think we all know why - its because they are clearly at-fault and they don't want to accept responsibility for it, plain and simple.

So, to the fine folks at Seymour Duncan I have the following suggestion . . . either FIX your published specifications sheets to reflect accurate product information or FIX your erroneous mis-packaging/mis-labeleing of said products, and kindly stop your practice of making the consumer(s) feel as though they (not you) were at fault, when it is clearly inappropriate to do so.

 

[Gplayerzzz]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

"The Buyer must go back through that specific dealer to get any refunds or exchanges, and in our case, that particular dealer (unbeknownst to us initially), had a 'non-refundable/non-returnable' policy on all "electronic" items including pickups"

Thats how my Guitar center is also.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

It's up to SD to keep their dealers in line with SD's policies. If SD offers an exchange period, they need to either make sure that their dealers are on board with that, or stop supplying those dealers. If dealers don't want to play by the rules, then they don't get to do business with Seymour Duncan; end of story. Either that, or SD needs to be willing to handle all exchanges directly with the customer. (I'd say shipping paid too, but good luck with that.)

It's also up to buyers to put pressure on retailers who let their own return/exchange policies trump the policies of their wholesalers. If a retailer doesn't honor a wholesaler's policies, rebates, warranty period, etc., then don't shop at that store.

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

Quick update:

Just received an electronic response from SD and their proposed solution was for us to send the pickup back to them at our expense so that they could "zap it' to reverse the polarity. My response to them was and is . . . "no, we're not going to absorb any further delays, return shipping hassles and inconveniences, or additional shipping/return shipping charges".

We'll use the pickup somewhere/someday, in another application, so no worries, but the bottom line is, their highest-priced, most boutique offering (i.e., the Antiquity-II), with its plush case candy and gourmet packaging, was packaged or labeled wrongly, and unfortunately, its just another in a long line of such snafus that we've experienced with them over the past 3-4 weeks, that they don't seem to want to accept responsibility for.

End of story!

 

[Scott Olson]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

You can always exchange an SD pickup in the US for up to 21 days regardless of the reason so long as you haven't altered it. If the person you purchased it from is giving you trouble with that just let us know.

All of our pickups are tested, every single one of them with the best equipment we can get our hands on. I don't know what happend with yours but we will certainly make right if there is something wrong with it. We don't have standard form responses, such a thing does not exist here. But I'd recommend you call and talk with Scott Marceau so he can make sure you are taken care of (805) 964-9610.

I don't know why you think there is an impression that you were at fault, I'm sorry for the experience you have had with your dealer - but that's by no means our intention. No one is more pissed off than I when these things don't go exactly as you would hope. Don't worry yourself, just give us a call and we will get it all straightened out.

EDIT: I wasn't aware you are already in touch with Scott Marceau - I'm glad you are in touch with him and I understand he has gone out of his way to send several free pickups as well as promising to exchange the pickup if it wasn't right. Sounds like you are in good hands, sorry for any trouble and he will take good care of you.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

This is a situation that is very easily fixed DIY. First, to reverse the "direction" of the wind, all you have to do is reverse the leads. Then, you can "zap" the magnets to reverse the polarity with just two neodymium disks in a vice. (Just make sure one disk is N facing the other disk and the other is S facing opposite of course.) Just run the pickup through there a few times with the top facing the South disk and it will become North. It's especially easy with Alnico 2, 3 and 4, but can be done also with A5.

Yes, I am a professional, but yes, please do try this at home.

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

Although I greatly appreciate the sincerity of the above posting and the related offer by Scott Olsen at SD, it is important to underscore that this thread was not initiated for the purposes of soliciting after-the-fact "fixes" from Seymour Duncan or from the general public. Rather, it was initiated for the purposes of drawing attention to an existing problem with the published specifications of their products vs. their true or actual specifications, and the grief that such inaccuracies can rain-down on consumers.

While I appreciate offers from both Scott Marceau and Scott Olsen of SD to rectify things by returning this defective pickup to their factory facilities for modification(s), it does not change the deadlines at-play here (i.e., we've got guitars to build and deadlines to meet!). Nor does it change the delays, shipping hassles and return shipping costs that have already been incurred with several different SD products that we've purchased in recent weeks, and it fails to address the heart of the problem for future patrons. Namely, why was the pickup mis-packaged or mis-labeled to begin with, or why is their published specification sheet in error?

Let's face it - fixing this one pickup for one single customer (i.e., me), is not going to prevent the same mishaps from occurring to others in the future, and that's the point of this entire venture. Sure, I can send the defective pickup back, incurring additional delays and shipping charges, and the folks at Seymour Duncan can then "zap it" and return it to me with still further delays, but this isn't the first time that its happened, so the bigger question is . . . why did it happen at all? And what about our losses and inconveniences in the process? Those are the things that need to be addressed by them internally, and soon.

Lastly, regarding the direction of wind and the suggestion to simply reverse the leads - although its certainly appreciated, this suggestion is no more than a 'band-aid' fix. It serves only to reverse the direction of current. It does not reverse the direction of the wind, and more importantly, it puts the hot end of the wrap against the magnets, which will cause excess noise when and if they are touched. This approach may be the quick and dirty fix for others out there, but it is far from ideal, and it is far from an acceptable approach for me.

In closing, the central question initially posed here has been answered, namely that the pickup was indeed mis-packaged or mis-labeled, and that I was correct in my assumptions. If nothing else, perhaps the folks at Seymour Duncan can now proceed with improvements to their own internal quality control measures necessary to reduce these kinds of snafus for other patrons in the future.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

received an electronic response from SD and their proposed solution was for us to send the pickup back to them at our expense so that they could "zap it' to reverse the polarity. My response to them was and is . . . "no

Let me get this straight.

You requested help. Some was offered. You rejected the offer. Now, you are disgruntled. :scratchch

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

Let me get this straight.

You requested help. Some was offered. You rejected the offer. Now, you are disgruntled. :scratchch

Their proposed solution is unacceptable. Try reading! And if you're still confused, then I'm afraid I can't be of much help to you.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

We've experienced tremendous inconsistency in recent weeks with the 'actual' vs. advertised' polarity (and/or direction of wind) on some of Seymour Duncan's pickup offerings, and we've inquired of them directly about it in recent days, hoping for an explanation without the courtesy of a response, but its reached the point of complete absurdity, so maybe someone here can help answer it for us.

We've spent a fair bit of money on SD products in recent days, only to find that those products did not comply with their own published specifications, and in some cases, the items are or were non-returnable, which essentially leads to victimizing the consumer. Not good!

Anybody?

So, it's not just the Ant. What other "tremendous inconsistencies" with other products that "did not comply"?

With over thirteen years of commercially dealing with Duncan products, my experience has been the complete opposite of yours, so I wonder.

So, please, tell. I'm all ears.

 

[dr.barlo]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

The guy's a bit angry... Just let him be, he'll calm down.

B

 

[uOpt]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

To be honest, I would like SD to more clearly state magnetic polarity and wind direction for their pickups. With the Strat Antiquities being different between I and II things got out of hand.

I understand that SD might not want to clutter up their product pages too much, but it should be somewhere, like a central page and the product page linking to it.

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

Look, I don't know where the confusion arose here or why others are having trouble reading the English language, but this isn't about bashing the quality of Seymour Duncan's products or their customer service. The products themselves are excellent (no dispute) and their customer service was incredibly responsive to my one and only previous complaint. In fact, I could not have asked for better service from them. As I've already clearly and previously stated (above), when told of an earlier problem with the incompatible direction of wind on two of their top-going Antiquity-II Surf models, Scott Marceau of SD responded immediately and sent us two replacements free-of-charge. The response was quick, the shipping was quick, and it was greatly appreciated by all. So its not the products or a lack of customer service that are at-issue here. As I've repeatedly stated, it is the unnecessary delays and costs associated with return shipments for a refund or exchange, and their impact on scheduled deadlines, period, paragraph! So I hope that's finally clear now to those who are struggling with it.

We've purchased a number of SD pickups in recent weeks, based on statements that all SD pickups were south polarity/top-coming, only to find out later that this wasn't quite true, because the Antiquities were all top-going. This led to some added costs and delays for us. Then we purchased and waited on delivery of an 'RW/RP-Middle Surf' model which clearly should have been 'north' polarity and 'top coming' wind direction, only to find out that it wasn't. That too has now caused us some additional costs and delays. And no, to be clear, a proposed solution of sending back (at our cost) one of their most expensive pickups (the Antiquity-II Surf) for a formal confirmation of their error, or to "zap" its magnets to reverse its polarity, or to switch leads in order to offset an improper direction of wind, simply because an RW/RP pickup wasn't prepared or packaged at the factory properly, as advertised, isn't the right answer. The right answer is to fix the problem at the root so that it doesn't continue to happen to others.

Could I possibly be any clearer?

Bonjour, ciao, goodbye, farewell, cyonara, hasta la vista, auf wiedersehen!

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

To be honest, I would like SD to more clearly state magnetic polarity and wind direction for their pickups. With the Strat Antiquities being different between I and II things got out of hand.

I understand that SD might not want to clutter up their product pages too much, but it should be somewhere, like a central page and the product page linking to it.

Yup, I couldn't agree more, and frankly, whenever we've called in an effort to ascertain the unpublished specs on various models so that we could indeed match things up properly, we've been made to feel as though its unnecessary information or that we're somehow 'weird' for even asking. Its completely unacceptable! Publish all of the specs, have all of those specs be "accurate", and package things to contain precisely what the package labeling states, or its a losing proposition.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

I agree with some of the sentiments and concerns voiced in this thread. I too would like more consistency in terms of magnetic polarity and what not. It's never made sense to me that the Antiquity Surfers can't be mixed with Antiquity Texas Hots without knowing how to get everything in phase and set up so the middle pickup when combined with either the neck or bridge cancels hum like its supposed to.

I know how to do it. But I'm certain I'm in the minority and that most players don't.

What does bother me about Stardust's post is this: locally owned music stores need our business in order to stay in business. But because they have more overhead than online dealers and have to pay a staff and rent and heat and electricity and everything else that it takes to run a "brick and mortar" business, local prices are usually slightly higher than an online business.

So many of us order all or most of our gear online in order to get it as cheap as possible and have our gear shipped to us from another state.

That being the case, it's we guitarists who have made that choice to buy cheaply and have our gear shipped to us instead of driving to our local dealer and paying a little more for the convenience.

If something goes wrong, it should also be the buyer who should foot the bill and pay additional shipping if something needs to be returned.

Why should the manufacturer or online dealer be penalized and have to pay return shipping because I chose to buy a piece of gear online for the lowest possible price, instead of getting in my car and driving to the nearest dealer in our town?

Do you think any local music store would pay for your gas if you had to get in your car to return an item? I don't.

And neither do I think that the Seymour Duncan Company should have to jump through hoops to satisfy an irate customer who bought something online for the lowest possible price rather than supporting his or her local music store.

It's not SD's fault that the buyer chose to save money by buying from an online dealer who's out of state.

 

[Stardust]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

If something goes wrong, it should also be the buyer who should foot the bill and pay additional shipping if something needs to be returned. Why should the manufacturer or online dealer be penalized and have to pay return shipping because I chose to buy a piece of gear online for the lowest possible price, instead of getting in my car and driving to the nearest dealer in our town? It's not SD's fault that the buyer chose to save money by buying from an online dealer who's out of state.

You're joking, right? Here's what you seem to be missing . . . the RW/RP specifications of the product contained in the box did not match the specifications for the product on the packaging or the specifications for the product as advertised on the manufacturers own website. What does any of that have to do with how, where or from whom it was purchased? Sorry, but your "local vs. on-line" commentary has absolutely no relevance to the issue at-hand here.

 

[uOpt]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

We cannot have consistency because Fender were the ones who changed polarity very early on. Wind direction doesn't really matter and is more for aesthetics.

But I want it more clearly documented.

I never would want to run a new-fuzzled south-polarity pickup in my Strat. They taste like ****.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: WHY THE DISPARITY IN ACTUAL VS. ADVERTISED SPECS AT SD WITH THEIR RW/RP OFFERINGS

You're joking, right? Here's what you seem to be missing . . . the RW/RP specifications of the product contained in the box did not match the specifications for the product on the packaging or the specifications for the product as advertised on the manufacturers own website. What does any of that have to do with how, where or from whom it was purchased? Sorry, but your "local vs. on-line" commentary has absolutely no relevance to the issue at-hand here.

Then YOU should have got in your car and returned it.

Oh...you couldn't! Why? Because low price was more important than supporting your local music store, and the dealer YOU chose to purchase from in order for YOU to get it at the lowest possible price was a thousand miles away.

Well, IMO, that's the chance YOU take when YOU buy sight unseen from a dealer a thousand miles away, in order to save money, instead of paying a little more and buying locally.