Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

[Dave Locher]

I was googling around on A5 vs A8 magnets and came across a couple different discussion threads where someone made the claim that higher-output humbuckers lead to quicker ear fatigue, either because the compress more or saturate more (depending on which thread and which forum).

Is this pure internet b.s.?

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Hot humbuckers have a resonant peak in the upper mids. People think this is treble, but it's lower. The human ear is most sensitive in this range, so that edgy tone can be very harsh after a while.

Lower wind pickups have a much higher resonant peak, so the top end sounds smoother.


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[Demanic]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

'Cause you get tired of listening to them shred.

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[KNUCKLHEAD]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

the Rest of the Gear , Music Style , Individual songs , recording or Live ~ are a big part of the rest of the Equation .

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I was googling around on A5 vs A8 magnets and came across a couple different discussion threads where someone made the claim that higher-output humbuckers lead to quicker ear fatigue, either because the compress more or saturate more (depending on which thread and which forum).

Is this pure internet b.s.?

I think the original post was made by me, when many years ago I wrote in this very forum and the MyLesPaul forum as well, about my A8-modded Jazz bridge giving me "ear fatigue" due to the sharp pick attack.

I was talking about the case of having "too much articulation", which at the time, even I considered the concept highly unlikely to occur, until I experienced it personally.

As always, people of the Interwebs misunderstood the meaning, but took the new-coniated term and misused at their heart's content.

There you have it.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

^^ You may have coined the term "ear fatigue", but I coined the term "listener fatigue" way before that. I also invented the internet. Al Gore is a liar.

J/K.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Ear, tongue, nose fatigue is a thing that actually happens - all the senses. But in this context, pure BS.

 

[gregory]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

^^ You may have coined the term "ear fatigue", but I coined the term "listener fatigue" way before that. I also invented the internet. Al Gore is a liar.

J/K.

I hope you were J/K, because Gore never actually said that.

While you may have coined the term, "listener fatigue," you couldn't have coined the term, "prime the pump."

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I think the original post was made by me, when many years ago I wrote in this very forum and the MyLesPaul forum as well, about my A8-modded Jazz bridge giving me "ear fatigue" due to the sharp pick attack.

I was talking about the case of having "too much articulation", which at the time, even I considered the concept highly unlikely to occur, until I experienced it personally.

As always, people of the Interwebs misunderstood the meaning, but took the new-coniated term and misused at their heart's content.

There you have it.

So...depending on which of you is correct either it's because a hotter pickup has too much attack OR because a hotter pickup's peak frequencies assault our ears OR it is just b.s.?
I believe one of the posts I saw was yours, kojack, but the same claims were also all over the gear page as well as a recording forum and a keyboard forum (in a different context, obviously: they were talking about compression, not pickup output).

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

hotter pickup has too much attack

What do you mean by "hotter"? If you mean DC resistance, that's just an unit of measure that's got nothing to do with tone.

The real "ear fatigue", comes from hearing music with sound pressure over 90dbs for long periods of time.

That's why there are rest pauses where musicians and specially the engineers go to quiet rooms or spaces in the studio every now and then, and also that's why the mix and/or the mastering is done at least a day after the takes are made.

But, as you put it in the OP, those opinions come from misconceptions about how things work.

HTH,

 

[gregory]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I recently looked at the specs posted on the Gibson site for their pickups. Like Lace, they have a numeric output rating.

I also read some discussions about their pickups where people took the output rating and then added a "k" at the end. Unfortunately that ship has long sailed.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I have a bunch of 59b's made from the 80's and 90's and right up to 2016.

They vary from 7.9K to 8.6K. But all are 59b's.

Those with a higher DCR don't sound much louder or have a lot more output.

They sound denser. Thicker. More opaque.

Like syrup compared to water.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Compression. There's a good article on the subject somewhere on the interwebz; will see if I can find it again.

So far nobody has brought up subwoofer-induced fatigue of the nards...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I hope you were J/K, because Gore never actually said that.

While you may have coined the term, "listener fatigue," you couldn't have coined the term, "prime the pump."

Sadly, "prime the pump" is not mine. But, the internet is !!!

Gore: "I took the initiative in creating the internet" = Self-aggrandizing politispeak which retains the ability to weasel out of making an exaggerated, misleading or untrue claim in the event that one gets called out on it. :approve:

 

[gregory]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Nevertheless, and obviously and irritatingly ego-fuled and overstated, it's likely the truth.

I've coined a few terms myself, but they shall remain shrouded in secrecy.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Hot humbuckers have a resonant peak in the upper mids. People think this is treble, but it's lower. The human ear is most sensitive in this range, so that edgy tone can be very harsh after a while.

Lower wind pickups have a much higher resonant peak, so the top end sounds smoother.


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I'm pretty sure this is correct. Especially with louder volume, very prominent upper mids do get your head humming. Try same, or even louder volumes with sound that has significantly lower or higher resonant peak, and you'll notice it's far less grating in the long run.

Of course the term "hot humbucker" is a different thing. I don't think that's anyway correlating to any certain pickup type. But the overall sound of your gear.

LtKojak: I think ear-fatigue as a term predates your internet personality

I get often very annoyed by the prominent pick attack, that's the main reason why I play with celluloid picks.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Of course the term "hot humbucker" is a different thing. I don't think that's anyway correlating to any certain pickup type. But the overall sound of your gear.

I define a "hot humbucker" as anything wound much past the typical vintage PAF specs. Examples would be a JB or DiMarzio SDHB. They are both wound almost exactly the same, but the SDHB having a ceramic magnet sounds brighter.

I usually stop at around 10k for bridge humbuckers (that's assuming its wound with 43 gage wire, since DCR numbers are misleading due to higher resistance per foot for thinner wire)

Past that point and they become too dark sounding when played clean.

I get often very annoyed by the prominent pick attack, that's the main reason why I play with celluloid picks.

I'm likely the exception because I like bright humbuckers. This trend towards "warm" sounding guitars introduces too much low end, which sounds good in your bedroom, but muddies up a band sound by taking up too much space that the bass and drums occupy, and you lose note definition.

I do a lot of recording, and have to prune the lows off the guitars (and kick drum) so everything sits well in the mix.

I also tend to like 25.5" scale lengths with humbuckers because the longer scales are brighter sounding. I almost want a single coil snap out of humbuckers. If I want a darker tone I can use my tone control. [emoji6]

If you want a smoother tone, try practicing totally clean, or even unplugged. Try to get a smooth tone with your fretting hand and don't use flexible picks. I hear so many players on YouTube that sound "plinky plinky" which is due to not fretting the notes long enough or something, and the way they pick.

That's not directed towards you of course. Just my general observations.

But back in the day guitarists used treble boosters like Rangemasters with Les Pauls to add some bite. These days people want to lose that while thinking they want a "vintage" rock tone. But it's the opposite.

A lot of guitarists use too much gain/distortion too. It sounds good right next to your amp, and hides sloppy playing, but it often turns into mush out front and is very ear fatiguing.

For bass I like Tortex (Delrin) picks because they are a little warmer.


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[gregory]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I wish I could give you two likes for that post.

I'm digging 13k, but then again I likes me some gain. I also like switching from parallel to series and this truly is the sweet spot for me in order to go between edge/crunch with a PAF vibe and great response to pick attack to harmonically rich OD with punch.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

I define a "hot humbucker" as anything wound much past the typical vintage PAF specs. Examples would be a JB or DiMarzio SDHB. They are both wound almost exactly the same, but the SDHB having a ceramic magnet sounds brighter.

I meant that prominent upper mids are not correlating to certain pickup type. Not that "hot humbucker" isn't. I see that was a bit unclearly said.

If you want a smoother tone, try practicing totally clean, or even unplugged. Try to get a smooth tone with your fretting hand and don't use flexible picks. I hear so many players on YouTube that sound "plinky plinky" which is due to not fretting the notes long enough or something, and the way they pick.

I agree with this. Playing unplugged is great way to improve your playing. Celluloids aren't really any more flexible that your standard nylon or Tortex ones (in fact, I think it's slightly less flexible than nylon), but they are much softer, smoothing out the pick attack.

I really like bright tone and that single coil snap, but without the prominent pick attack

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why would hot humbuckers lead to ear fatigue?

Yeah, I get ear fatigue much quicker with hot humbuckers ...listening to what other people play with them.