Wide Range Humbuckers

[JasJones]

Hi Guys,
I am buying a set of the custom shop wide range humbuckers for a Thinline RI rebuild I am doing, was wondering the best Pots for these pickups 250's or 500's with a .047 cap? The electronics are a single tone and a single volume and a 3 way switch.
Thanks in Advance.
JJ

 

[Aceman]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

500's. You can always turn 500 down, you can't add to 250.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Well, they're supposed to go with 1 megs, but I guess only I do that.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Oh - you mean "Wide Range" not "pickups with a wide range"

 

[JasJones]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Yes Seymour's Custom Shop "Wide Range" Humbuckers as used originally in the 1971 Fender Telecaster Thinline with threaded poles pieces if you look in the Custom Shop here they are listed street price $380.00 a set. The confusion comes from the wiring diagram which call for 250K pots I have always used 500K on all my previous Humbucker rigs, so hence the question to the room to define what the Custom Shop would suggest or if anyone has bought these, if so what pits did they use.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

The vol pot value will be a fixed tonal effect......as in you change the way the pickup sounds all across its range. The tone control is more like a variable treble rolloff - once you have the pickup sound you can remove treble from the tone. The cap determines a threshold of the rolloff and the value of the pot will determine how much treble is still present at 10.

With different values in the volume position you probably won't simply be able to roll off the tone knob to make it the same as a lower value.
In the tone position a higher value pot can simply be turned down to mimic a lower value pot.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

500's. You can always turn 500 down, you can't add to 250.

Sorry Aceman, but if I recall right this is the third time I read you making this false assumption. 500k volume turned down to 250, IS NOT THE SAME AS 250k FULL.

500k pot puts 250 kohms between ground and lead + 250 kohms in signal line -> 250k has 0 ohms in signal line full + 250 kohms between ground and lead. In practice, this means 250k full is brighter (and louder, if pickup is wired to middle lug) because the load on signal line is accentuating the effect of tone circuit. Also, if you have something like a non-buffered pedal with volume/gain pot, it'll affect the tone of that too. Because resistance is cumulative through the circuit.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Sorry Aceman, but if I recall right this is the third time I read you making this false assumption. 500k volume turned down to 250, IS NOT THE SAME AS 250k FULL.

500k pot puts 250 kohms between ground and lead + 250 kohms in signal line -> 250k has 0 ohms in signal line full + 250 kohms between ground and lead. In practice, this means 250k full is brighter (and louder, if pickup is wired to middle lug) because the load on signal line is accentuating the effect of tone circuit. Also, if you have something like a non-buffered pedal with volume/gain pot, it'll affect the tone of that too. Because resistance is cumulative through the circuit.

I get the physics of it. I'm not even going to go into the argument with you. We'll just have to agree to agree yet disagree.

Reality is that if you get 10 guitars, half with 250's and half with 500's (same guitar, same pickups) most guitars players can easily pick out the 250's with no difficulty.

Quote the math all day long if you want. It's not that simple.

 

[JasJones]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Yeah that clears things up, is this what happens to all the SIMPLE questions asked in this room?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

"Best is an opinion, I like 1 meg; I use them with my Wide Range copy. 250k wasn't a huge amount less bright to me, or at least through my setup, but I preferred 1 meg. Then again I'm used to 1 meg; I play Jaguars/Jazzmasters. Other people have strong opinions on the sound of high value pots. Again, that's what would have come on a Wide Range guitar from the factory.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

the original wide range pups had cunife magnets, which as far as i know are almost impossible to get. even fender stopped using them due to supply issues. ive heard that there is cunife available but that it is quite different than the old stuff.

if you prefer a warmer tone, i would use 250k pots. if you prefer a brighter tone 500k. ive never found a setup that i kept 1meg pots in, there is always some grating high end when the controls are full up. ymmv through a different setup

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Jeremy is correct. Duncan Custom Shop is not using CuNiFe magnets like the originals. Most repro builders are either using Alnico 5 slug magnets or FeReCo magnets. The ONLY repro builder out there using CuNiFe magnets is Telenator. They have a limited supply and as such a true repro with correct magnets is around $400 per pickup.

I recently got a WRHB from Brandonwound for my 75 Tele Custom RI. It sounds better than the stock Fender pickup but it's HOT. Brandon uses FeReCo magnets in his and I've got it paired with 500K pots.

 

[JasJones]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Thanks to the room for the responses. I will stick with the wiring diagram Seymour has up online, when in doubt trust the guys who owns the joint as they say. Not looking to knock down walls, I don't play before crowds half the size of Woodstock. I see now that the warm bluesy tones I am after will come from the setup Seymour has up on the site. BTW for those of you that have not met the man he is a workaholic who never misses an opportunity to inform people of his products, he is very proud of his company and a very nice person to talk to about everyone's favorite subject, guitars and tone. I was very fortunate to meet him at the inaugural Santa Barbara Stringed Instrument Festival, he was there in his Seymour Duncan logoed shirt with a pocketful of business cards working the room as only Seymour Duncan can do. He was nice enough to take a break from his obvious workday to chat with my wife and I about guitars and his company, it was a good day made better by meeting Seymour.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Reality is that if you get 10 guitars, half with 250's and half with 500's (same guitar, same pickups) most guitars players can easily pick out the 250's with no difficulty.

Quote the math all day long if you want. It's not that simple.

I don't understand this answer. You was the one who said 500k sounds same than 250k...

EDIT: It wasn't quote... I just tried to explain why you're assumption was wrong. Not wanting to argue pointlessly...

 

[Jacew]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Yeah that clears things up, is this what happens to all the SIMPLE questions asked in this room?

Well, higher value pots are brighter, but they can add more punch too. They can sound better overall, but if your pickups are too "sparkly" high valued pots get too harsh. Which is why 250k are preferred with single coils. Tone circuit can be used to balance the hashness, response, and brightness too of course.

Question you asked is not simple. Best answer for it is to try 500k first, and bunch of different value capacitors, and see what works and sounds best. And try different pots too, if you want/have to go for it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Hi Guys,
I am buying a set of the custom shop wide range humbuckers for a Thinline RI rebuild I am doing, was wondering the best Pots for these pickups 250's or 500's with a .047 cap? The electronics are a single tone and a single volume and a 3 way switch.
Thanks in Advance.
JJ

If you are getting these from the Custom Shop...go to the source. Ask them what pots they would use.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Well, higher value pots are brighter, but they can add more punch too. They can sound better overall, but if your pickups are too "sparkly" high valued pots get too harsh. Which is why 250k are preferred with single coils. Tone circuit can be used to balance the hashness, response, and brightness too of course.

Question you asked is not simple. Best answer for it is to try 500k first, and bunch of different value capacitors, and see what works and sounds best. And try different pots too, if you want/have to go for it.

Thanks for mentioning "more punch" with higher value pots I always perceive that but people tend to not agree, so glad someone can back me up.

I went through 250k, 500k, and 1 meg on my WRHB guitar before settling on the latter.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Yes Seymour's Custom Shop "Wide Range" Humbuckers as used originally in the 1971 Fender Telecaster Thinline with threaded poles pieces if you look in the Custom Shop here they are listed street price $380.00 a set. The confusion comes from the wiring diagram which call for 250K pots I have always used 500K on all my previous Humbucker rigs, so hence the question to the room to define what the Custom Shop would suggest or if anyone has bought these, if so what pits did they use.

The reason the original guitars ended up with 1M pots is that there was a massive surplus of pots that they ordered for amps which ended up with a design change, meaning they didn't need the 1M pots for the amps anymore. Fender, not being a company to waste existing stock, tossed them in the guitars with the WRHB pickups.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

Iirc some regular Telecasters (SC, standard setup) received 1 megs as well in the late sixties?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Wide Range Humbuckers

yep.