wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

nepalnt21

nepalnt21

HamerTimeologist
thinking of getting a set of wilde L-500s for my ibanez sz520

actually, i'll likely end up with a L-90 (2.8H) in the neck, as opposed to the 500c in the neck, but this question is about the bridge pickup.

i played my friend's gretsch with a 500xl in the bridge (c in the neck), and it was too midrangey for me. not enough highs. as i understand it, the clarity comes with lower inductance pickups, so i was going to go with the regular (500r) in the bridge position. i like the idea of retaining the highs for funky rhythms (normally i'm a strat player, i like bright bright ouch bright tones).

will the 500r still be able to get a good chugga chugga palm mute power chord thing going on (think mesa boogie punk/ palm muted metal stuff)? i dont really like scooped mids, but the xl was just WAYYYYY midrangey in this guy's gretsch.

basically, i cant find any sound clips- or much info at all on people using a 500r in the bridge position.

tldr; what are your experiences with a bill + becky L-500r in a bridge position?
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

If you want icepick highs, yes, run a L500R in the bridge. I’ve NEVER heard somebody describe a Lawrence as too middy.

If you want a good chugga chugga tone AND funky cleans, run a L500L or XL and run a series/parallel switch or a split.

The two tones you describe wanting are mutually exclusive. You need mids for a punchy rhythm tone.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

Dinebucker is supposed to be a slightly more mid-scooped version of the XL, and SD shows it as slightly more bassy and waaaay more trebly than it is middy, in other words, scooped not mid-peaky (the various companies using Bill's names don't publish EQ charts, or at leadt any I could find)

but I had an XL in a Charvel and it wasn't super-middy. Highs is what they all have a crapton of.

I daresay the problem was the Gretsch
 
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Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

the thing is, i WANT mids. i dont like mid scoop (cept the slight mid scoop fender clean). i guess it was just that this particular xl in the gretsch was WAYYY dark/ middy. no highs.

the 500c neck was nice and clear/ chimy. very sexy.
 
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Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

nepalnt21 said:
the thing is, i WANT mids. i dont like mid scoop (cept the slight mid scoop fender clean). i guess it was just that this particular xl in the gretsch was WAYYY dark/ middy. no highs.

the 500c neck was nice and clear/ chimy. very sexy.
Click to expand...

Chime is highs.

I installed a 500XL with a Fender CS69 in the neck, and to my surprise found them tonally similar. Almost too similar.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

nepalnt21 said:
the thing is, i WANT mids. i dont like mid scoop (cept the slight mid scoop fender clean). i guess it was just that this particular xl in the gretsch was WAYYY dark/ middy. no highs.

the 500c neck was nice and clear/ chimy. very sexy.
Click to expand...

Your buddy messed something up with the bridge wiring or that Gretsch is made of cork lol
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

nepalnt21 said:
thinking of getting a set of wilde L-500s for my ibanez sz520

actually, i'll likely end up with a L-90 (2.8H) in the neck, as opposed to the 500c in the neck, but this question is about the bridge pickup.

i played my friend's gretsch with a 500xl in the bridge (c in the neck), and it was too midrangey for me. not enough highs. as i understand it, the clarity comes with lower inductance pickups, so i was going to go with the regular (500r) in the bridge position. i like the idea of retaining the highs for funky rhythms (normally i'm a strat player, i like bright bright ouch bright tones).

will the 500r still be able to get a good chugga chugga palm mute power chord thing going on (think mesa boogie punk/ palm muted metal stuff)? i dont really like scooped mids, but the xl was just WAYYYYY midrangey in this guy's gretsch.

basically, i cant find any sound clips- or much info at all on people using a 500r in the bridge position.

tldr; what are your experiences with a bill + becky L-500r in a bridge position?
Click to expand...

The tone of any passive pickup largely depends on the guitar and its electronics (+ the CABLE used and its capacitance, which is always overlooked or forgotten, although it's a key parameter in how passive pickups sound ), That said, I see what you mean about the XL being too middy/muddy: I've a vintage L500 (technically equivalent to a contemporary XL) and it measures 9.4H: it's one of the highest inductances available so it has the potential to deliver tons of mids.

I've had a lower wound Bill&Becky L500 in bridge position: a L500L, measuring 12.5k and 6.4H (the one sold as the "6 Henry" model): with an inductance reminding a P90, it was a fine bridge pickup in the Steinberger Spirit hosting it. Now it's in the neck slot (since a 24 frets maple stick needs beefy pickups).

Regarding the SH13: it's a different beast, IME: I've measured it @ 16.2k / 6.85H and have found it more qwacky / tighter than most BL's (at least the vintage or B&B iterations: BL USA model are closer sonically).

About the L500R: if memory serves me, it has a measured inductance around 4.8H [and is sold as a "4 Henry" model], which is close to the value of a typical P.A.F. replica. It's almost half the inductance of a 500XL. So, yes, the tone is brighter...

Good luck in your quest!
 
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Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

if i can djent with a L-500r, then i'm good. as long as i can still retain the chime. right now i'm watching youtube videos of people doing palm muted power chords with standard gibson humbuckers. i think i could djent with a strat pickup, so i'm not sure why i was worried.

thanks for the input, everyone.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

One thing to consider is that Bill Lawrence pickups are really transparent. Your friend had a really midrange heavy with a bit less treble, but I've had quite a few experiences with this same pickup where it was quite the opposite.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

nepalnt21 said:
the thing is, i WANT mids. i dont like mid scoop (cept the slight mid scoop fender clean). i guess it was just that this particular xl in the gretsch was WAYYY dark/ middy. no highs.

the 500c neck was nice and clear/ chimy. very sexy.
Click to expand...

I've never heard an L-500 described as dark & middy - maybe your friend's Gretsch was one of those models with a "mud switch?" Or, as others have suggested, it was a dark, very midrangey guitar...
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

eclecticsynergy said:
I've never heard an L-500 described as dark & middy - maybe your friend's Gretsch was one of those models with a "mud switch?" Or, as others have suggested, it was a dark, very midrangey guitar...
Click to expand...

Bill Lawrence PU’s are certainly more open sounding than most powerful pickups on the market thanks to their specific design : focused magnetic windows (due to their blades), nothing to subdue their high range (their plastic housing causing no Foucault’s currents a.k.a. Eddy currents), and a “crossover” effect between coils enhancing some "chiming" frequencies in the extreme high range…

Now, the difference of inductance between a L500XL and a 500L is almost the same than between Hot Rails and Cool Rails and the sound changes accordingly IME…

So, IF ever a L500XL is played through a high capacitance cable, it will sound middy and dark, whatever is the guitar hosting it… That's what happens when I play mine through a coily chord measuring 1500pF, for example.

The inner wiring of the guitar might also play a role here: even if it’s done correctly, its parasitic capacitance can be hard to predict and might affect the tone more than expected (knowing that a Gretsch has often several pots located all around its body and several ft of necessarily capacitive wiring between them). :-)

Anyway, I'll repeat myself: by design, IMO, a L500L has still enough beef for chugga chugga and its mids aren't too scooped, but it has more chime than a XL.

FOOTNOTE - As suggested above by formula73, a L500XL splitted of wired in parallel is able to deliver single coilish chiming clean sounds. It has even to be tamed in this case, IME...

FWIW, once again (2 other cents).
 
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Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

TL;DR

It ain’t the pickup. Your bud’s guitar is to blame.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

I emailed Becky just the other day about the L-500R in the bridge. She said that Bill liked it in the bridge and asked me which guitar I'm looking to put it in so I shared that info and waiting to hear back on her thoughts.

If it's too bright, 250K pots can remedy that, or the Q filter. That's a suggestion I've seen on the Wilde forum.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

Sometimes I change between the 500 C and L in the bridge...the L has a fatter sound, but both has nice clarity but they are never hash to my ears...
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

If the man Bill Lawrence (Willi Lorenz Stich) was still alive, RIP, then I would suggest calling him up. His wife, Becky, still runs the "Wilde" Bill'nBecky Lawrence. She is hit and miss on the phone calls depending on how busy/behind the shop is. Both Bill Lawrence Companies could use improvement on the communications...I found persistence is the key for both companies.

Sorry, never used the L500R in the bridge...love the pickups and would say for the price to just give it a shot. You can always use it in the neck or flip it. Best of luck!
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

Just have to pile in and also say I am baffled by your buddy's Gretsch. Surely something is wired odd in his guitar. I had two different L-500XL pickups in three different guitars and none sounded "middy." Bright and powerful and clear.

I second all the votes for the L-500R or L rather than C, but if you like Strat single coil then maybe the C really would suit you.
 
Re: wilde (bill lawrence) L-500s (bridge p/u -?-)

Besides the possible explanations provided in my previous posts, there's a last thing overlooked here: vintage, Wilde and "USA" BL's can be very different sounding under a same name. Example (to listen from 5:30 for dirt tones and 10:30 for clean sounds): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J30K8DvfwlM
 
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