Will this work: Coil Splitting Switch using CTS Push-Pull Pot on HSH Strat.

[tlocus]

Hello,
New here but have been working on my custom HSH Fender Strat for a while now.
The Strat is the one pictured below and uses all Seymour Duncan pickups. The pickup configuration is HSH.
The wiring is just like an oem standard stratocaster including the 5-way switch (Neck P/U, Neck & Center P/U, Center P/U, Center & Bridge P/U, Bridge P/U).
The 2nd Tone knob is a CTS Push-Pull switch.
I want to use the Switch wired for Coil Splitting:
-Down position would be all pickups in noise canceling(Humbucker) mode.
-Up position would be coil splitting or all 3 Pickups as single coil (SSS)

The DTDP CTS switch in a certain position, the vertical connections are not connected to the corresponding opposite side connections (DTDP switch).
The C1 & 2 connections are for the middle Seymour Duncan P/U (Seymour Duncan STK-S4m Stack Plus)
The C2 & 4 connections are for both Hum. Seymour Duncan P/Us (Neck: Seymour Duncan Sentient & Bridge: Seymour Duncan Nazgul).
The 'hot' wires from all P/Us go to the 5-way switch as usual.
Basically wondering if this would work. The bridge and neck Humbuckers (red and white wires for coil splitting) are both connected to #4 on the CTS DTDP switch. These are never used at the same time using the strat 5-way switch.

 

[Benjy_26]

I know you can split 2 pickups with one DP/DT switch, but I've never tried to do 3.

 

[GuitarDoc]

No, that's not going to work.

Use this diagram:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/HSH_5W_1VppSPL_1T.jpg
but connect the neck red+white to the C2 lug on the CTS p/p. The bridge is as shown (red+white to C1). Lugs 2 and 4 are connected together and go to ground.

This gives you full humbucker mode in neck and bridge when the p/p is down and both pups split when p/p is up.

 

[tlocus]

No, that's not going to work.

Use this diagram:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/images...1VppSPL_1T.jpg
but connect the neck red+white to the C2 lug on the CTS p/p. The bridge is as shown (red+white to C1). Lugs 2 and 4 are connected together and go to ground.

This gives you full humbucker mode in neck and bridge when the p/p is down and both pups split when p/p is up.

Thanks for the replies!
Can you explain a bit more on why my diagram wouldn't work?
Does the CTS DTDP switch has to be the volume pot?
I wish your link to that diagram had 2 tone pots instead of just 1 volume pot and 1 tone pot.

Btw, the center pickup: Seymour Duncan STK-S4m Stack Plus has noise cancelling even though it looks like a single coil.

thanks again,
t

 

[PFDarkside]

Thanks for the replies!
Can you explain a bit more on why my diagram wouldn't work?
Does the CTS DTDP switch has to be the volume pot?
I wish your link to that diagram had 2 tone pots instead of just 1 volume pot and 1 tone pot.

Btw, the center pickup: Seymour Duncan STK-S4m Stack Plus has noise cancelling even though it looks like a single coil.

thanks again,
t

Think of it this way, the red and white are actual
connections to the ends of two coils, not just a switching line. When you are not split, the end of each coil (red/white, both pickups) will be connected in parallel to each other. When you select full bridge, you’ll also get the Red/Green coil of the neck as well since it’s connected in parallel at the push pull.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Thanks for the replies!
Can you explain a bit more on why my diagram wouldn't work?
Does the CTS DTDP switch has to be the volume pot?
I wish your link to that diagram had 2 tone pots instead of just 1 volume pot and 1 tone pot.

Btw, the center pickup: Seymour Duncan STK-S4m Stack Plus has noise cancelling even though it looks like a single coil.

thanks again,
t

As PFD said, the red and white wires are from each of the coils of each pup.
When they are connected (in each pup separately) you get full series humbucker of each pup. When those wires are switched to ground, you short out the green-red coil and only get the black-white coil (split mode). In your diagram the red and white wires of both pups are connected together on a common lug in the p/p (linking the two pups in parallel) but the p/p doesn't switch those wires to ground so you can't get split mode.

The DPDT p/p can be either vol or tone pot...it doesn't make any difference since the p/p portion is electrically separate from the pot portion.

One DPDT p/p can only split two pups. You can't split three pups with just one DPDT p/p. You could do it with a TPDT switch, but I have never seen a TPDT in a p/p.

 

[tlocus]

Think of it this way, the red and white are actual
connections to the ends of two coils, not just a switching line. When you are not split, the end of each coil (red/white, both pickups) will be connected in parallel to each other. When you select full bridge, you’ll also get the Red/Green coil of the neck as well since it’s connected in parallel at the push pull.

Ahh ok,
I was thinking it as Humbucking/noise cancelling, the red and white wires joined together, and coil splitting/single coil? mode red and white connected as well but grounded out. C1 = red & white and #2 = ground

The link GuitarDoc posted as the correct way, only has 1 Volume and 1 tone. Is there a version of that diagram that uses 1 volume and 2 tone pots?

 

[GuitarDoc]

Ahh ok,
I was thinking it as Humbucking/noise cancelling, the red and white wires joined together, and coil splitting/single coil? mode red and white connected as well but grounded out. C1 = red & white and #2 = ground

The link GuitarDoc posted as the correct way, only has 1 Volume and 1 tone. Is there a version of that diagram that uses 1 volume and 2 tone pots?

The tones don't really matter to the function of the splitting. You could have just one, two, or three tone pots and it won't affect it.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Here's one that shows two tone pots. But still, it only splits two (neck and bridge) of the pups.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/1SCH_1S_1SCH_5W_1VppSPL_2T.jpg

 

[tlocus]

The tones don't really matter to the function of the splitting. You could have just one, two, or three tone pots and it won't affect it.

Thanks GuitarDoc,
I guess one last question.
On the Seymour Duncan Sentient & Nazgul humnuckers, when not using coil splitting the black wire is 'hot' the red & white are tied together but not connected and green & bare wires go to ground. So is the black wire both coils and red and white wires are each coils 'separetly (red is one coil and white the other)?

 

[PFDarkside]

To clarify further for tlocus (can’t tag due to forum issue) the coil splitting/selection/switching is independent of the volume/tone pot/wiring. The pot(s) with the switch can be wired to be a volume or tone control completely independently from the switching action the push/pull switch is doing. The only limit is that if you want Volume/Tone, you’ll only get two push/pulls obviously.

I would personally use two push/pulls, one for the neck/middle and one for the bridge. This would allow you to keep the bridge full on Humbucker but switch the neck/middle to single (effectively a HSS). Then connect the tones the way you do today.

 

[Artie]

So is the black wire both coils and red and white wires are each coils 'separetly (red is one coil and white the other)?

Black & white are the two wires of the stud coil, and red & green are the two wires of the screw coil.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Just to point out, if no one has already, that you can't actually coil split a single coil pickup. Coil tap yes, split no, and you'll need a tap-able pickup.

 

[tlocus]

Just to point out, if no one has already, that you can't actually coil split a single coil pickup. Coil tap yes, split no, and you'll need a tap-able pickup.

Btw, thanks to everyone who replied! Inductance has always been my weakest point in electtronics.
Even the STK-S4? diagram:

 

[GuitarDoc]

You can see that each of the two coils has two wires, a start and a finish. When you connect the red and white wires together you are connecting the two coils together in series (typical humbucking mode)...the green wire is grounded, the signal goes through the south coil to its red wire, the red is connected to the white wire and carries the signal through the north coil to the black "hot" wire. When you "split" a humbucker you connect that red+white combination to ground. This grounds out the south coil completely (both of its wires, green and red are connected to ground) leaving only the north coil active (the white wire is now grounded, the signal is only going through the north coil and the black wire carries the "hot" signal).

Not all pickup mfr's use the same colored wires in their pups so you need to keep that in mind when you are loading your guitar with different brands. Here is a chart:

https://guitarelectronics.com/guitar-wiring-resources/humbucker-wire-color-codes/

This is very basic but necessary info. I hope I didn't offend anyone by being so basic...I just wanted to make sure this was clear and understandable.


One more thing just to be clear...the label in the pic which says "coil tap" should actually be "coil SPLIT". There is a difference between "tap" and "split". When you ground the red+white of a humbucker, it is a "split".

 

[tlocus]

You can see that each of the two coils has two wires, a start and a finish. When you connect the red and white wires together you are connecting the two coils together in series (typical humbucking mode)...the green wire is grounded, the signal goes through the south coil to its red wire, the red is connected to the white wire and carries the signal through the north coil to the black "hot" wire. When you "split" a humbucker you connect that red+white combination to ground. This grounds out the south coil completely (both of its wires, green and red are connected to ground) leaving only the north coil active (the white wire is now grounded, the signal is only going through the north coil and the black wire carries the "hot" signal).

Not all pickup mfr's use the same colored wires in their pups so you need to keep that in mind when you are loading your guitar with different brands. Here is a chart:

https://guitarelectronics.com/guitar-wiring-resources/humbucker-wire-color-codes/

This is very basic but necessary info. I hope I didn't offend anyone by being so basic...I just wanted to make sure this was clear and understandable.


One more thing just to be clear...the label in the pic which says "coil tap" should actually be "coil SPLIT". There is a difference between "tap" and "split". When you ground the red+white of a humbucker, it is a "split".

Thanks GuitarDoc,
for the more thorough explanation!

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

A tap - able single coil pickup usually has a third wire, a second hot, or perhaps we could call it the "warm", soldered to the coil somewhere around halfway along the coil between the ground wire and the full hot. The idea is to get lower output from using fewer turns in the same coil.

To wire a coil tap pickup you need to ground the ground (or do whats shown on the circuit diagram you're using).

The "warm" and the "hot" wires go to the switched terminals on the push-pull. The common contact gets wired to the selector switch or volume pot like a normal single coil pickup does. In push (typically) you'll have the full hot connected, in pull the "warm".

 

[eclecticsynergy]

If you have two tone controls, you can use a second push-pull. Two switches would allow splitting all three pickups.
Actually you could do it with just volume & one tone, but probably best not to use a P/P for volume if you can avoid it.

If it were my guitar, I might use one push-pull to split the neck & middle, and the other to split the bridge.
That would give you a virtual HSS with one pull, or all three split with both pulled.

PS: STK-S4 uses two coils stacked rather than side-by-side so it's really still a split, not a tap.
Only semantics, really - for decades players used the terms interchangeably. But nowadays we try to be more technically accurate.
Anyway, Three Chord Wonder & GuitarDoc are entirely correct, a tap only applies to true singlecoils. Or transformers...