wiring advice requested

[Herby]

I've drawn this using several different diagrams. I can't find any diagrams with the exact layout I'm looking for so I had to improvise a bit. I'm trying to get a clean series/parallel wiring scheme using a standard 5 way and a push/pull pot. I'm not getting exactly what I'm after and was wondering if anyone could help me untangle this mess. I have the tone knobs on the neck and bridge pickups and the push/pull pot is the bridge tone. The middle pickup is supposed to be either in series or parallel when in position 2 or 4. For some reason beyond my understanding the push/pull and 5 way are not acting like I expected them to.

(note: the bridge pickup is not flipped. I did this to make the diagram easier to draw.)

I was looking for:

switch down:
1) neck
2) neck/middle (parallel)
3) middle
4) middle/bridge (parallel)
5) bridge

switch up:
1) neck
2) neck/middle (series)
3) middle
4) middle/bridge (series)
5) bridge

 

[Artie]

Re: wiring advice requested

You can't really do this with a standard 5-way. You'll need a Superswitch.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

I've drawn this using several different diagrams. I can't find any diagrams with the exact layout I'm looking for so I had to improvise a bit. I'm trying to get a clean series/parallel wiring scheme using a standard 5 way and a push/pull pot. I'm not getting exactly what I'm after and was wondering if anyone could help me untangle this mess. I have the tone knobs on the neck and bridge pickups and the push/pull pot is the bridge tone. The middle pickup is supposed to be either in series or parallel when in position 2 or 4. For some reason beyond my understanding the push/pull and 5 way are not acting like I expected them to.

(note: the bridge pickup is not flipped. I did this to make the diagram easier to draw.)

I was looking for:

switch down:
1) neck
2) neck/middle (parallel)
3) middle
4) middle/bridge (parallel)
5) bridge

switch up:
1) neck
2) neck/middle (series)
3) middle
4) middle/bridge (series)
5) bridge

You may need a superswitch but you may need to rethink what you are doing.
On a normal 5 way, you can either use a push pull so that in the when down it’s all like a normal strat, when up:
bridge position you get middle and bridge in series
Neck position gives neck and middle in series and you can either have all 3 middle positions as middle pickup or positions 2 and 4 out of phase ( putting the Dan Armstrong series out of phase mode on a push pull)
Or
When up positions 1 and 2 are Bridge and middle in series, positions 4 and 5 are middle and neck in series. Middle position is dead.
The reason is how the 5 way works and in order to do series wiring you are connecting the ground from both neck and bridge to the hot of the middle to create a humbucker. So when either neck or bridge is selected (depending on the 2 ways above) the middle comes on in series.

If what you want can be done, then it can only be done on a superswitch as each position is separate and you have 4 banks to control circuit flow.

What you would need to do is use a push pull to decide whether the neck and bridge grounds go straight to ground or connect to the hot of the middle pickup in positions 2 and 4 while not creating a problem where bridge and neck are in parallel together and in series with the neck or creating dead spots in the middle position. Let me think on this. Its something I’ve attempted before but ruled out as I also wanted the ability to get neck and bridge in the middle position


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

Sorry!

I tested it, it does not work - another bank is needed - bank 4 connects neck and bridge together in parallel and in series with middle in positions 2 and 4.

I therefore conclude it’s not possible to do it.

I recommend you go with the Dan Armstrong mod, and use a push pull instead of blending.

That works really well. The out of phase is optional

Here’s how I implemented it with a superswitch. I have since swapped the pot out for one that has centre detent.

https://youtu.be/IQfZawBSwIs

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

You may need a superswitch but you may need to rethink what you are doing.
On a normal 5 way, you can either use a push pull so that in the when down it’s all like a normal strat, when up:
bridge position you get middle and bridge in series
Neck position gives neck and middle in series and you can either have all 3 middle positions as middle pickup or positions 2 and 4 out of phase ( putting the Dan Armstrong series out of phase mode on a push pull)
Or
When up positions 1 and 2 are Bridge and middle in series, positions 4 and 5 are middle and neck in series. Middle position is dead.
The reason is how the 5 way works and in order to do series wiring you are connecting the ground from both neck and bridge to the hot of the middle to create a humbucker. So when either neck or bridge is selected (depending on the 2 ways above) the middle comes on in series.

If what you want can be done, then it can only be done on a superswitch as each position is separate and you have 4 banks to control circuit flow.

What you would need to do is use a push pull to decide whether the neck and bridge grounds go straight to ground or connect to the hot of the middle pickup in positions 2 and 4 while not creating a problem where bridge and neck are in parallel together and in series with the neck or creating dead spots in the middle position. Let me think on this. Its something I’ve attempted before but ruled out as I also wanted the ability to get neck and bridge in the middle position


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

your second description is what I'm getting now. I was a little disappointed. It's not completely unacceptable though, because when the switch is up it acts like a Gibson with 2 humbuckers... just can't have the middle position because there isn't 4 coils to work with.

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

.ok, got it! Sorry it’s hand drawn.

I assume you know how to do the basics. This diagram does not tell if you are using tone or volume push pull .

There is a drawback - you will have to have master tone as this used the 4th bank to make the connections from bridge and neck finish and middle start. Otherwise middle position will be dead as you disconnect middle start from hot to allow serial connection. There’s no way around this.

You can use the other tone control as a blender to have either neck and bridge or middle ( or all 3 blended in between) but that’s a separate thing. Or you could use s stacked pot instead of a push pull and use the stacked pot in tone 2 position to blend in series.

Anyway I think this is right - others may critique it ....

Thank you
I'm going to save your drawing and use it to experiment with. I like the idea of having the bridge and neck both on (in parallel).

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

your second description is what I'm getting now. I was a little disappointed. It's not completely unacceptable though, because when the switch is up it acts like a Gibson with 2 humbuckers... just can't have the middle position because there isn't 4 coils to work with.

That’s looking at the standard way. That’s why I don’t use them. I have 2 SSS strats, and HSS strat and 2 HSH strats. ALL have the super switch.

I’m going to replace my version of the Dan Armstrong mod myself now and put that in. I don’t look me out of phase that much.

If you want the neck bridge in the middle, I’ll do you the diagram to put both in, it’ll be what goes in mine.

With the neck and bridge on in series with the middle it’s sounds like a cross between a strat and Les Paul in the middle position- basically you get the telecaster combo of neck and bridge in parallel which are then together in series with the middle. It’s a pretty cool sound.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

Sorry - it doesn’t work -

I recommend this modified Dan Armstrong mod instead.

This works really well. It works better if you use reverse audio taper on tone 2 which is the series blender

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

UPDATE

I’ve worked out the problem- the serried parallel switch cannot be done with a DPDT switch. It needs a 3PDT switch to attach the ground leads from the neck and bridge pickups to their respective terminals on the bank for series.

I’ll test BEFORE I do a diagram and keep you posted !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

Thank you very much for your efforts. When I posted this thread I never expected to get this much help:arms:

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

Thank you very much for your efforts. When I posted this thread I never expected to get this much help:arms:

Actually- my diagram may have been right- this was my 4th rewiring schema on the superswitch- I tested the switch on the multimeter and it’s cooked!

I have rechecked the diagram and it should work - series parallel on the middle usually joins the 2 grounds from bridge and neck. My switch had continuity where it shouldn’t and none where it should. They don’t like being heated up too often.
so I am going to get another switch and try again. If it works I’ll repost the diagram.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

Thank you very much for your efforts. When I posted this thread I never expected to get this much help:arms:

Herby, I have cracked it!!! And tested it. My switch was gone do I recycled another I have spare.

It won’t give exactly what you want and I’ll explain why.

When you put 2 coils in series you are connecting the ground from one coil to the hot of another. The way superswitch and regular strat switches work means that you will get dead spots.

So when you connect bridge start to hot, bridge finish to middle start, and middle finish to ground, when you select bridge you get bridge and middle as a humbucker.

The superswitch improves this by giving you the ability to put that selection on the bridge and middle position. Great ! you select bridge and middle but then go to bridge without taking it back to parallel- you got a dead spot. That’s because the only path to ground is via the middle pickup and in the bridge position, it’s no longer selected.

I have a solution for you and in my opinion it’s really very neat

In parallel mode you get your usual positions. ( I’ve got neck and bridge selector on a push pull for the middle position as well, I’d advise you do and I’ll tell you why in a moment)

Then in series mode:
Positions 1 and 2 are bridge and middle in series as a humbucker

Positions 4 and 5 are neck and middle in series as a humbucker

Position 3 can either be middle pickup OR if you have a push pull to change that to neck and bridge, you get neck and bridge in parallel together then in series with the middle - making a super- bucker!

This works very well because if you are in parallel mode and say bridge - it’s one movement not two to get a humbucker- you just pull up, whereas in your original requirement you’d have select middle and bridge then pull up to get series. So in patience mode with middle and bridge, again just pull up to get series.

If you want this plus the neck and bridge push pull selector it’s just a small amendment to my diagram.

You can change it so the middle position is never in series.

Again small change.

Here it is assuming you want to go ahead with neck and middle selector and series selector in all 5 positions

EDIT:
———-///////———

The have put tone controls on neck and bridge - this leaves the middle wide open so when in series mode it helps keep things bright.

Also if you have 2 tone controls you need to have separate capacitors as you take the hot from the pickup connection on the superswitch to the tone pot. Regular strat tone control set up will bleed a little neck and bridge together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

I like this more than the Dan Armstrong series / out of phase blender because with a blender, between on and off, too much signal in the series blend is lost in the resistance of the pot. Plus out of phase with single coils does not sound good.

Plus this is much easier to access the series selections ( on Dan Armstrong’s mod,clever though it is, only gives it on positions 1 and 5)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

This is amazing. Better than what I wanted. I'll get to work on it immediately. Thank you very much Vinnie :banana:
...you're right about the out of phase sounding terrible. I've never liked it.

[EDIT] Have to order parts... may be a few days before I can get back with a report.

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

This is amazing. Better than what I wanted. I'll get to work on it immediately. Thank you very much Vinnie :banana:
...you're right about the out of phase sounding terrible. I've never liked it.

[EDIT] Have to order parts... may be a few days before I can get back with a report.

I’m thinking of instead of a push pull for the neck and bridge or middle pickup selector to use either a Bourns blend pot or a 3 position rotary switch to give me either middle, neck and bridge in parallel or .... all 3 in parallel- I’ve got it in another strat ( with the Dan Armstrong blender - but I use a .047uF cap for the out of phase jumpers - that sounds ok) that’s a nice sound - I use a 2 pole 3 position switch for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

Parts are ordered
Most of the time I dial down the tone on the bridge. I'd like to run 2 tone pots (neck & bridge) so 2 push/pull pots work best for me. I didn't want to put a push/pull on the volume. I'm thinking it would just get me in trouble...

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

Parts are ordered
Most of the time I dial down the tone on the bridge. I'd like to run 2 tone pots (neck & bridge) so 2 push/pull pots work best for me. I didn't want to put a push/pull on the volume. I'm thinking it would just get me in trouble...

Push pull on the volume is horrible live. I use push push on tone controls.

But more often I use master tone and an alpha rotary switch.

The above can be done using a 3 pole 4 position rotary switch instead of tone 2, and tone 1 is master tone.

I tend to use rotary switches now instead of push pulls unless all I’m doing is the most doe position selector.

I intend to set my rotary switch as follows:
1 parallel mode, middle position is middle pickup
2 parallel mode, middle position is neck and bridge
3 series mode, middle position is middle pickup
4 series mode middle position is bridge and neck together in parallel and in series with middle pickup

If you don’t want all 3 pickups on in the middle position in series mode on the series bank on the super switch just leave the middle lug unconnected- if you’re not sure what I mean let me know.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

Re: wiring advice requested

Updated diagram so all pickups are connected to a tone control.

Tone 1 covers neck, neck and middle, and middle pickup ( positions 5, 4, 3)

Tone 2 covers bridge and middle, bridge ( positions 2 and 1)

You can do it so bridge tone affects only bridge and neck to affects all neck and muscle dole positions, just adjust the jumper accordingly. I did the latter on an HSS strat as the bridge has 500k tone instead of 250k.

On an SSS strat the former makes more sense to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[vinnie1971]

wiring advice requested

Herby!!!!
A lightbulb moment. When I drew the diagram to get all pickups with a tone control I saw how I can use the bank that I used for the tone controls to give you your original requirements. This has given me a path to ground in positions 1 and 5 for neck and bridge when the series selector is engaged.

When up only positions 2 and 4 are in series - everything else is the same ( plus you still have the ability to get bridge and neck in the middle)

That means you only get to e control over 2 pickups - I’d choose neck and bridge as I hat bridge with no tone.

In this version and the one above you do lose bridge and neck together in parallel and in series with middle though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Herby]

Re: wiring advice requested

This last diagram is absolutely "perfect".
Thanks Vinnie. You're the greatest : party: