Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

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ram_man

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Wiring Confusion..

Can someone please help?

I recently wired two APH-1’s into my Michael Kelly Patriot Custom as I’ve always wanted to get the fat bluesy/rock tone whilst keeping the split coil for a ‘thinner’ sound to keep my options open (removing the stock Rockfield’s that weren’t bad but not 100% to my taste).

Before I started I compared the original wiring to the suggested SD wiring (which came with the pups) and then attempted a ‘hybrid’ wiring using the PRS idea (resistors before grounding the split coils) and opting for a 50s style configuration.

So, I now have a couple of questions:

1. Is the Seymour Duncan suggested wiring classed as Modern wiring?
2. Can someone confirm that this is a ‘Vintage’ setup.
3. Has anyone tried this before, better ideas or thoughts welcomed!

Having tried the setup I thought that the bridge sounded great split and standard, I may have to lower the resistor value on the neck (to 1K) for a more defined tone, not much difference to my ears as is.

I’ve never operated a 50’s style wired guitar before so wasn’t sure if the characteristics that I now have are what I should expect or if I’ve missed something.

I have attached the before and after wiring diagrams I created (both pots are grounded, isn’t shown on diagram for clarity).

It’s my first post so please be gentle!

Cheers.



Ps – Sorry if I’m covering old ground here but I’ve searched high and low over the internet and cannot find an answer to this so thought going back to the experts would be the best bet!


Before

MKPCAM APH-1 Split Wiring Stock IS.jpg



After


MKPCAM APH-1 Split Wiring 50s.jpg
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

well... there is very little vintage about coil splitting or using resistors in a coil splitting wiring scheme

if you look at your first picture, for "50's" wiring all you would do is move the green wire on the volume control to the next lug over
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Jeremy, thanks for your help, I guess I should have put a comma or 'and coil split' in there.

The coil split was just a 'nice to have' as the guitar came with the option, I really wanted someone in the know to give me the nod on the 50's or vintage side with this set-up, close but no cigar eh!
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

The 50's wiring just connects the tone circuit to the output of the volume pot. This can be done to any guitar.

All it does is to preserve high frequencies in your tone as you lower the volume.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

AlexR said:
The 50's wiring just connects the tone circuit to the output of the volume pot. This can be done to any guitar.

All it does is to preserve high frequencies in your tone as you lower the volume.
Click to expand...

Cheers AlexR,

Just wanted input and opinion, appreciate people taking the time to help.

Does connection via a cap or via a link provide pros/cons?

Again,apologies if I'm bringing up 'ye olde relic' material here I searched in vain before posting!
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

The link vs cap is a nonissue, nor is the order of the pot/cap in the path to ground. The key is removing the filter from the effect of the volume pot.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

What you have there is the Cap and tone pot in series between the switch and the vol pot. That's going to cause the cap to block lows (depending on the value) rather than shunt the highs to ground as a normal tone circuit does. Also the tone is going to act like a volume control.

You need to move the cap from the vol pot and ground that end. For 50's wiring, move the red wire from the tone to the vol (outside term) and run a wire from the tone (where the red wire was) to the center vol terminal. Like so:

MKPCAM APH-1 Split Wiring 50s B.jpg
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Demina, this is a great help, this is what I need, learning from experience. So that's 50's covered, how would modern work? As per seymour duncan wiring diagram? Anyone any experience of splitting APH1s?
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Your first diagram is "modern wiring". As you roll down the volume pot you will also lose some of your highs. The main function of the "50s wiring" is to preserve the highs as you roll down the volume. I wire all of my guitars (over 30) with 50s wiring.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

What Doc said. Just move the gray wire from tone to volume in my diagram from the middle of the vol pot to the outside where the red wire is.

MKPCAM APH-1 Split Wiring Mod.jpg
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

At the risk of sounding dumb... Demina the second drawing you amended is that
Just a correction of 50s or another method? Confused after you changed it.

After reading up on the advantages of 50s wiring it sounds like it's for me, was going to go for a .033 cap (although
.047 is recommended), guess that's another thread altogether!!
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

The second drawing is the modern wiring, my first one was 50s. I labeled it up at the top.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Modern to 50's wiring is just moving the tone by 1 lug on the volume pot.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Cap value may be topic for another thread, but you asked it here so I'll give my two cents worth here.

.047uf is a commonly used cap, but it drastically reduces the treble and mids as the tone pot is rolled off giving a rather dull, lifeless, "speaker-under-a-wet-blanket" kind of tone. The smaller the value of the cap the less affect it has on the mids and lower highs. A .010uf cap only affects the very high frequencies. I never use .047uf caps myself, usually opting for .022uf or .015uf (even .033uf is too dark sounding for me).

Caps are not very expensive and very easy to change so I would suggest starting with a .022uf and see how you like it. If you want more effect from the tone control, put in a .033uf or .047uf and see how that sounds to you. If the .022uf cap removes too much of the mids, try a .015uf or .010uf cap.

It's really trial and error until you become familiar with how cap values affect your tone and you find out just what you want your guitar's tone pot to do.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

GuitarDoc said:
Cap value may be topic for another thread, but you asked it here so I'll give my two cents worth here.

.047uf is a commonly used cap, but it drastically reduces the treble and mids as the tone pot is rolled off giving a rather dull, lifeless, "speaker-under-a-wet-blanket" kind of tone. The smaller the value of the cap the less affect it has on the mids and lower highs. A .010uf cap only affects the very high frequencies. I never use .047uf caps myself, usually opting for .022uf or .015uf (even .033uf is too dark sounding for me).

Caps are not very expensive and very easy to change so I would suggest starting with a .022uf and see how you like it. If you want more effect from the tone control, put in a .033uf or .047uf and see how that sounds to you. If the .022uf cap removes too much of the mids, try a .015uf or .010uf cap.

It's really trial and error until you become familiar with how cap values affect your tone and you find out just what you want your guitar's tone pot to do.
Click to expand...

Cheers Guitar Doc, I have posted a new thread but I appreciate the advice. I dont want to make it too dark and with only one volume and one tone and I dont want to kill the pups designed tone. .047 is quoted on the diagram that came with the pups but like you say, could prove too dark, may even start with the .015 and work up
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

It's good to try several just to see for yourself what effect each has on tone.
 
Re: Wiring Confusion (50s Vintage Coil Split)

Will do, I want to be able to roll the tone off and not worry about it sounding too muffled or unusable.

Thanks again everyone for their input!
 
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