Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

DazH

DazH

New member
I checked the wiring schematic today for "3 lil humbuckers, 2 tone, 1 volume" - I assumed that vintage/hot/cool rails were wired the same, but the schematic that came with the vintage rails is different.

For example, hot/cool rails - the black wire goes to the switch.
whereas: vintage rails - black AND red wires go to the switch.

Will there be any problems occuring due to the differences in wiring?

On another note: As I understand it, the general consensus is that the best setup for these pickups would be [cool/neck] [vintage/middle] [hot/bridge]

I'm content with hot rails in the bridge, but cant get my head around wether I want vintage/cool in either neck/middle positions.

What are the pro's/con's of each position?

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

The old Vintage Rails and Duckbuckers were wired internally in parallel. Thats a critical part of their characteristic sound. The new ones give you all four wires, but to wire them the "old" way, you'ld wire them in parallel, which is black and red to "hot", green and white to ground. You can certainly wire them in the traditional humbucker way if you want, but it will change their sound. Not necessarily for the worse. Its just an option.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

I see, correct me if i'm wrong, and i'm most likelt to be.

I basically have the choice of either wiring them all (black+red to switch) or wiring them all (black to switch) & not mixing them.

I'l assume the black+red is more "stratty" and the black on its own more "humbuckery" what a lovely word, lol.

Cheers for your time man.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

You're exactly right! :)

Just keep in mind, the Hot/Cool Rails were designed to be wired "humbuckerish", while the Vintage Rails was designed to be wired parallel.

If it was me, I'd probably wire them all as they were meant to be, then add a push-pull to "split" the Cool/Hot rails.

Then again, I've never heard a Vintage Rails wired "humbuckerish". Might be a "cool" sound. (Pun intended.)
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

"I'd probably wire them all as they were meant to be"

So it would be possible to mix the two ways of wiring? or is the "push/Pull" a way around it?

Apologies, I have not looked into what exactly "push/pull" is, I assume you can turn a knob into a kind of button to change wiring somehow.

Thanks again.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Close, but not exactly. That wiring will "split" all three pickups. You don't really want to split a Vintage Rails. Because of its design, you'ld only get three strings then. The other three wouldn't be "off", but much weaker.

You'll need to use bits and pieces of a few different drawings, but its not really that complicated. Wire up your neck and bridge like this, using one push-pull:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/2h_1v_1t_3w_1pp.html

Use that diagram for the green, bare, red and white wires. Use the drawing you posted for the blacks. Now use this drawing for the Vintage Rails:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/series_split_par_w_phase.html

You'll just be using the switch on the left. No need for the phase switch, and since its a push-pull, you won't get the "split" function that they list. Use the grayish wire they show coming off the left as your ground, and run the black wire to the 5-way as per your first diagram.

Does that make sense? I'd draw you a custom diagram, but I'm way behind right now with others'. If you aren't in a big hurry, I still could, but you should be able to figure it out with those I posted.

Let us know if you still have questions.

Edit: By making both tone controls push-pulls, and using one to split the neck/bridge and one to series/parallel the middle, you should have a pretty cool range of sounds.
 
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Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Right so,

For the cool/hot rails, black wires to the corresponding switch point.
red & whites together to the push/pull rather than being taped off.
The rest ground to the volume pot.

For vintage rails the black wire to the corresponding switch point.
The rest into the second push/pull via the 2nd link you posted.

Wow, this is really going over my head now. The advantages of this being that 1 switch swaps the more humbucker styles to sc & vice versa. and the second switch "series" and "parralells" the vintage rails more sc style pickup.

I think i'm out of my depth now, Maybe I need to consider what I want to get out of it & simplify the wiring.

Basically, I mostly play hendrix & led zepp, the standard pickups were'nt too bad for hendrix, though the neck pickup allways got too muddy & I really like a nice bass sound, so that was dissapointing.

Obviously though, zep was harder to nail as the other pickups were'nt right. Anyway, when I play with others/friends/family etc we tend to play classic rock'esque stuff, so humbucker sounds are far more ideal.

I needed a way to go from my hendrixy sound (vintage rails & cool rails potentially) to a more classic rock humbucker sound (cool rails/hot rails)

Perhaps if I went for [neck-vintage][middle-cool][bridge-hot] - left the vintage as a single coil sound & had a push/pull for the other two?

that or I just wire the whole lot as humbuckers, i'm just frightened I wont be able to play hendrix on it if I go that way is all.

This guy seems to be using vintage rails (in humbucker wiring?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMp75HkzE-k
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

I think I may try standard humbucker wiring for now & see how it sounds, then figure out what I want to eventually do with it & open it up one last time to do so.

Can anyone advise me on wether [neck-vintage][middle-cool][bridge-hot] will be better/worse/different from having [neck-cool][middle-vintage][bridge-hot] ?
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

I'd go with the Cool Rails in the neck, because they are smooth, yet punchy. The Vintage Rails are more quacky usually, but after you've faffed about, I'm not too sure. By the sounds of it, it will sound good distorted in the middle position yielding a nice rhythm tone. As I say, Cool Rails neck leads are amazing! Give that a go first. You will be able to change it easy enough if not.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

That's true, I guess the best thing for me to do is just get them done & try them 1st. Cheers man.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Ok, finished wiring it in a standard humbucker way. Wow, these are crunchier than I expected, they're great for classic/heavy rock/metal etc but hendrix is out of the question.

They do look good though & there is no hum whatsoever.

Picture_2.jpg


I really cant have it without being able to play some hendrix on it though, I think i'm gonna have to go back to the drawing board sadly :(
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

You haven't been on the forum long enough.

From here, you get another Strat, and make it so you can do Hendrix on that. Before too long, you have a morasse of the things.

It looks sweet though man. Rails pickups look and sound the business.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Does anyone have any sound clips of humbuckers being split? i'm kinda pinning my hopes on that sorting out my problem. Genuinely gutted i've lost the hendrix tone. Cheers for all the help nonetheless guys.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Ok, ordered a couple of 250k push/pull pots for tommorow - I'm hoping I can figure out a way to series/parallel & split/"unsplit?" with them using Artie's previous guidance, which i'm dead appreciative of right now, i'l do anything to sort this, heh.

If anyone has any prior experience or a schematic of some sort, I would be really grateful for the help.

One thing I noticed though, the vintage rails I wired as a humbucker, it definately is humbuckerish, could I not just wire all 3 to be split/unsplit ?

As for series/parralell, that would apply to all 3 also I assume?

Edit: Ok, so.

250k push/pull (volume) : [split/unsplit]

250k push/pull (neck tone) : [series/parallel]

I have to assume since I am trying to achieve ALL series/parallel & ALL split/unsplit - all 3 pickups would be wired exactly the same way?

**EDIT3**

Ok, after further playing about, I can absolutely see what you mean by 3 strings being thin on the vintage rails, the high-e>b>g would be pretty bad once split I assume.

Will go with artietoo's origional & well-founded suggestion, heh.
 
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Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

abc1.JPG


I hope that's right.

(A) Will it matter which way around the red+white wires are connected? i.e does the bridge have to be on the left/right hand side specifically?

(B) Will the current wiring from other pots have to change? or do I only need worry about wires coming from the pickups?

I'l try and figure out the vintage rails now & edit this post.

abc2.JPG


I'm hoping i'm at least close to correct there.

Edit4:

I've noticed allot of people talking about the cool rails in parrallel, the way I currently have it wired is series right? the above wiring method would allot me to "split" but not parallel/series - that would only apply to the vintage rails.

So perhaps, paralell/series for ALL 3 ?

Ugh, this is endless. if I were to parrelel/series & split/unsplit all 3 in 2 seperate buttons, it would still work out I suppose, would require me to only work out 1 method of wiring & give me a simple selection of a variety of sounds. I dunno, it's hard to decide when I dont technically know the outcome, anyone got any audio examples of split/unsplit parallel/series changing?

Ok, after reading up on things I definately want switchable parallel/series or just parallel for all 3. Splitting, Either all 3 or as artie mentioned before just neck & bridge. I cant find a diagram that runs through 2 push pulls, maybe this isnt possible? If so, then all parrallel & one push/pull to split.

Artie, where for art thou? heh, would really appreciate some help from anyone right now.
 
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Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Hey guys, Can anyone tell me if the following schematic is correct (it excludes pickups for now, I just want to make sure the rest of it is fine before connecting the pickups)

I have swapped the tone controls around. Looking at some standard sd schematics online it's hard to tell if it's correct as I cant tell if the capacitor is in the right place etc.

wire_stuff10.JPG


ignore the colours, theyre just to make it easier to identify.

Thanks.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

DazH said:
(A) Will it matter which way around the red+white wires are connected? i.e does the bridge have to be on the left/right hand side specifically?
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't matter. A push-pull pot, or any DPDT switch, for that matter, is just two independent switches mounted in a common housing with one handle. Doesn't matter which side does what. You can split your pup with one side, and turn on the back porch light with the other. ;)

DazH said:
I've noticed allot of people talking about the cool rails in parrallel, the way I currently have it wired is series right? the above wiring method would allot me to "split" but not parallel/series - that would only apply to the vintage rails.

So perhaps, paralell/series for ALL 3 ?
Click to expand...

Parallel series would work, but you can't parallel two pickups on one push-pull. You can, however, split two with one PP.

DazH said:
I dunno, it's hard to decide when I dont technically know the outcome, anyone got any audio examples of split/unsplit parallel/series changing?
Click to expand...

The best thing to do is still to hear it for yourself. Even if it means rewiring your guitar a couple times. The solder practice will do you good. :D

DazH said:
Artie, where for art thou? heh, would really appreciate some help from anyone right now.
Click to expand...

Right here, bro. ;)

Basically, it looks to me like you have it all pretty well under control. Just try a couple different things and see how you like it. One of the nice things about a Strat is that usually, you only have to loosen the strings a bit to take the pickguard on and off. The work is worth the effort in the end. Then you'll know whether or not you prefer split, series, or parallel.
 
Re: Wiring differences (vintage rails <> hot/cool)

Hi Fella's,

Wow... this is exactly the set up I am also trying to figure out! I have a hot rails bridge, vintage rails middle, and a cool rails neck in my strat. 5 way switch and a push/pull knob. This is the wiring diagram I used:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/schematics/3lil_hum_1v_2t_5w_3splits.html

Problem is when I pull the push/pull, and split the pups, the middle pup loses half the strings. I can see by reading this post, one doesn't want to split a Vintage Rails! DOH!

Artie... I know you can't see this, but I am typing on my knees begging you to tell me what I have to change in the diagram I listed to NOT split the Vintage Rails when I hit the knob! I am soooo close here, but have not been able to figure it out.

If you do modify the diagram above, I vote that we send it in to Duncan so they can include it in the list of diagrams... since we can't be the only people here who have railed out their guitars and want to split the coils for the most verstatile strat possible!

Electronics Novice... trying to figure this all out.
 
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