Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

i just ordered this 4 way tele switch from acmeguitarworks ...

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/4-Wa...x?UserID=88497&SessionID=hbl4TGCwhLrRyQ9C2bql

it will give me parallel and series combinations of the vintage stack set ...

my question is this .. can i also do the power boost with a push / pull in conjunction with the 4 way?

and butch, how exactly does the boost work? seems counter intuitive that splitting a pup would make it louder .. what am i missing?

thanks
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

i just ordered this 4 way tele switch from acmeguitarworks ...

http://www.acmeguitarworks.com/4-Wa...x?UserID=88497&SessionID=hbl4TGCwhLrRyQ9C2bql

it will give me parallel and series combinations of the vintage stack set ...

my question is this .. can i also do the power boost with a push / pull in conjunction with the 4 way?

and butch, how exactly does the boost work? seems counter intuitive that splitting a pup would make it louder .. what am i missing?

thanks
t4d

I'll have to look that over to answer the first part of your question, but on the second part . . . I drew up the powerboost circuit as a schematic. It doesn't really "split" the pup, as much as reverse the phase of one coil relative to the other. I'm not sure what the benefit of that is either, unless they start off out-of-phase, and that mod brings them back to being in phase.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

butch, how exactly does the boost work? seems counter intuitive that splitting a pup would make it louder .. what am i missing?

thanks
t4d

The power boost wiring basically makes active the bottom "dummy" coil...

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

ah - cool .. which, of course, begs the questions ...

what is a 'dummy coil' and how does it contribute to single coil-ish tone by being 'inactive'

cheers
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

I hope I don't sound argumentative here, but thats not correct. There is no "dummy" coil. In the "off" position, the coils are connected as any humbucker.

Black: output
red and white together
Green: ground

When you activate the switch, you simple reverse the black and white wire, which effectively reverses the phase of the black/white coil. Thus, you have:

White: output
red and black together
green: ground

Its kind of an odd setup.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

yeah, artie, that's what i 'thought' ... but i questioned myself 'cus i know that there's alot more for me to learn about pups - i allowed that 'stacks' might be different somehow from regular 'side by side' buckers ...

have you guys done this with a vintage stack and observed it to produce a 'boost'?

cheers
t4d

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

I hope I don't sound argumentative here

Nope, not at all...When it comes to this special wiring stuff, I am clueless for the most part.

have you guys done this with a vintage stack and observed it to produce a 'boost'?

That's what I'm going to do tonight. I just bought my 250k push/pull pots...

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

I don't know if this will help to visualize it, but this is whats happening:

The top part shows the coils "normal".
The bottom shows the "powerboost" switch pulled. But as I said, I'm not sure myself what the benefit of that is.

Working on your diagram now, Butch. And having a cold one. :laugh2: (TGIF)

That's what I'm going to do tonight. I just bought my 250k push/pull pots...

I better get busy. I'm curious to know how this comes out also.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Here's what Scott Miller had to say when I e-mailed him.


From Scott Miller - "The powerboost wiring works only with stack (one coil physically on top of the other). What you do is hook up one the coils backwards (on a standard humbucker this would make the PU sound out of phase with itself). With the stack what ends up happening is that you end up, essentially, with one giant single coil. The result is a big, fat, high-output, single coil sound that ends up actually being hotter than the stack in hum-canceling mode. You will LOSE hum-canceling in powerboost mode.

If you want to hard-wire a stack in powerboost mode, just use the normal wiring---but switch RED & GREEN."

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

From Scott Miller - " ... The result is a big, fat, high-output, single coil sound that ends up actually being hotter than the stack in hum-canceling mode. You will LOSE hum-canceling in powerboost mode.

If you want to hard-wire a stack in powerboost mode, just use the normal wiring---but switch RED & GREEN."

thanks butch - this makes sense, in an odd way .. i think it has to do with the field orientation .. when the coils are side-by-side, they cancel hum because the fields are opposed in the z coordinate .. but if they are stacked, the fields would be additive in the z coordinate ... clever

artie, is the schematic diagram (as posted by butch way up above in the thread) doing this?
cheers
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Here's what Scott Miller had to say when I e-mailed him.


From Scott Miller -
If you want to hard-wire a stack in powerboost mode, just use the normal wiring---but switch RED & GREEN."

Thats interesting, since the switch swaps black and white. Regardless, thats good info to know. I'd love to hear that. And on that happy note, see if this makes sense to you. If not, I can draw slightly different:

(Click image for full-size version.)



btw - in the drawing, the blue wire coming off the pup is the white wire. Its hard to get white to show up on white. :laugh2:

Edit: Ooops . . . I left the cap off the tone control. It goes where the ground connection is. I'll add it right now.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Now that's a drawing I can understand.....Artie, you did a really nice job drawing those pickups. They look real... :burnout:

I will print this out and build it tonight. I will post my results...

Thanks again and again...

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Now that's a drawing I can understand.....Artie, you did a really nice job drawing those pickups. They look real... :burnout:

I will print this out and build it tonight. I will post my results...

Thanks again and again...

Uh . . . yeah . . . I made 'em myself. :laugh2:

The cap is on the big pic now. If you don't see it, reload the pic.

I'll be expecting clips, someday.

Artie

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

thanks artie - nice job ... why do you show the 'bare' wires going to the switch and the green wires just simply grounded? .. i was expecting the other way around ...

think this will work all the same with that 4 way switch i linked to above?

the write up for that switch mentions 'The ground must be lifted from the rhythm pickup cover (if there is one), and an additional ground wire added to maintain its shielding capability.'

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

thanks artie - nice job ... why do you show the 'bare' wires going to the switch and the green wires just simply grounded? .. i was expecting the other way around ...

Actually, I don't show the bare wire in that diagram. Just Black, red, white, (represented in blue), and green. I always forget to show the bare.

I assume folks know it goes to ground. Maybe I should add it just to prevent confusion.

T4D, I'm pretty sure it should work the same for a 4-way. To be honest, I'm not as familar with the 4-way, and I have to keep looking it up to remind myself how it works.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

ugh ... of course .. my bad ... sorry ... i confused the black for the 'bare' ...

i guess my eyesight has 'mellowed' as much as my hearing

thanks again

cheers
t4d

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Cool . . . just to make it easier, I doubled-up on the thickness of the pup wires, and added the "bare".

If anyone has saved this, they should reload it.

 

[Butch Snyder]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Well, I spent the better part of last Saturday wiring and testing and rewiring and more testing. Here are the wiring schemes I tried and their results.

1. Power Boost Option - I tried this with a my 3-way switch and a couple of push/pull pots I had bought Friday. The results were that I had the regular Tele switching but when I pulled the pots, the pickups went to Power Boost. The Power Boost engages both coils of the Stacks. It's a big sound and not muddy at all. You do lose the noise-canceling feature. The problem was that there was so much of a difference between regular mode and Power Boost mode, that it wasn’t usable IMO.

2. Split w 5-Way Option – This scheme splits the coils on the Stacks and only uses the top coil. I removed the push/pull pots and reinstalled the stock pots. The result was a louder pickup with really no more clarity, punch, or anything else. Again, the difference in output between the Split Mode and Regular mode was too much to be usable IMO.

3. Out-of-Phase – I did this scheme along with the previous 2 schemes using my Vintage Stack in the bridge and either the Vintage Stack neck pickup or the Classic Strat Stack in the neck position. I used the 3-way switch and wired it using the standard modern Tele method. I used the stock volume pot but installed a push/pull pot in the tone control. The result was good pot I really didn’t like the tone of the phasing with the Classic Stack and Vintage stack neck pickup. It was to thin and “honky’. I was also missing the tone from my mini-humbucker in the neck. So I pulled out my black pickguard that houses a mini in the neck position. I mounted it and I actually chose to use the mini-humbucker for the phasing. Since it has only 2 wires, it was an easier connection. The result of this test was the best. I really like the tone of the middle position. It’s like a standard Tele but a bit fatter. The Out-of-Phase was really nice. When phasing the Tele bridge pickup and the mini-humbucker, it’s a little fatter and not quite as “honky”. It sounds close to the neck/middle pickup position of a Strat. It’s the one I’ll keep; for awhile at least…

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

Great report Butch. It sounds like you're stacks present a similar problem as my QP's. When tapped, they have that great "airy", jangly sound. When full-on, they almost overpower everything else. I still like it, but I use that mode the least.

 

[tone4days]

Re: Wiring Gurus, I need Help...

thanks butch - i was hoping you'd report back in ... nice write up - glad you are happy with the end results ..

i was expecting my pups this weekend, but they didnt arrive yet ... the 4 way switch came, though ...

i am really interested to hear what the two pups in series sounds like ... i am curious to check out the power boost for myself, despite your description .. it sounds like a potentially useful way for me to retain the tone, yet cut through for soloing .. we'll see

cheers
t4d