Wiring help for a crazy build

[cohibacris]

Well, maybe not crazy but it will be my first straight up wiring job for a guitar and I've done what I normally do - shoot the moon and learn as I go. I think I'm almost there... http://wp.me/p1Dodn-M

If you (re: those who read diagrams fluently and fulfill the wiring sage role in your worlds or something like that! :1: ) could follow the shortlink above to one of my sites and see if I've drawn any egregiousness errors in rules, etc I would be eternally grateful. I've rattled in the Pickup room on this build but the site it's posted to is down and I can't get the link this second.

This is a custom chambered strat with a HHH setup, two of which are triple shot ringed, making like a bit easier. I've got the 5 way switch down pat I believe but the pots are tossing me. I want to use Push/pull DPDTs for 1 volume and 2 tones where the volume can bring in the neck (overriding the switch position) and same with the T1 Bridge tone control (pulling up for bridge pickup on irrespective of the super switch).

Any assistance that can be offered would be wildly helpful and relieve some angst about not knowing this portion of the build - I can carve intricate tops but I can't seem to feel as if I've got the wiring yet...

Your assistance is appreciated. I tried posting the image/pdf here but could never get it small enough... (a problem I'm ok with in other areas)
Cris

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Cris; You have several problems there, but its complicated enough that I'll have to chew on this one a bit. For starters, note that your T1 push-pull grounds out the bridge pickup hot wire. Any time you select the bridge pickup with the 5-way, and pull that knob, you'll kill the entire output of the guitar.

Probably not what you were going for.

I'll look this over closer tomorrow.

Artie

Edit: Btw, when we get this sorted out, this should be a killer axe. Very interesting choice of pups. :scratchch

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Thanks Artie - I knew I'd boogered something. If you have Visio & its easier to edit the electronic version lemme know and I'll ferry it over somehow.

Essentially, the relative intent is there but the execution is crap. ;-) Appreciate it once more!

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

No prob Cris. I'm not sure what Visio is, but I'll just do one of my "paint-something" diagrams. Software that I know.

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

not that is makes one diff, but it's a evil empire product for diagramming (MS) between paint and AutoCAD. corp wonks use it & it comes with office sometimes. I'll shut my trap now!

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

No, . . . that was a great definition. :bigok:

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Just my 2 cents that may simplify things... why be able to turn on the bridge *and* the neck pickup? Why not use individual switches on/off for each pup? You could use the push/pulls for that, and use the 5way for something else entirely - Varitone slider, volume/tone presets?

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Just my 2 cents that may simplify things... why be able to turn on the bridge *and* the neck pickup? Why not use individual switches on/off for each pup? You could use the push/pulls for that, and use the 5way for something else entirely - Varitone slider, volume/tone presets?

jtougas, thanks for the reply - it's the body of the guitar that's the challenge. http://www.crisrogers.com/2012/05/04/taking-the-plunge/warmoth-strat/
The lam of quilted maple is right pricey and a looker so I'm attempting to keep the top as free from extra controls that aren't 'required'. I know that its easier (by far) to use a DPDT toggle but if the same gig can be accomplished down the long and circuitous route I've taken, all the better. the other oddity is that my Vol PP is empty on the up setting - I have to come up with what that'll be used for or leave it for future growth. With the two (neck & bridge) pickups covered I have a few switch position options for the full set of pups - Maybe I'll phase the middle pickup (Mr. Burns thinking, hands raised with fingertips connecting the two)

The build diary is here (so far) http://www.crisrogers.com/2012/05/04/taking-the-plunge

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

if I misunderstood (after rereading it's entirely possible) please elaborate jt; honestly if someone reading this and thinks the layout is dumb, it's entirely possible. This axe has my head spinning (original intent) and I'm under no preconceived notions save I need a Vol and Tone control option. How that's accomplished & what other McGyver gyrations that can be shoved into the control slots is something I'll take advice all day on...

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

My idea was basically to use the three (V/T/T) push/pull pots for the pickup activators, instead of using miniswitches or the fiveway. Then, use the fiveway switch for some really unusual wirings (1 position passes everything straight to the jack for raw tone, 2 position goes through the usual volume and tone, 3 position has 20% volume cut and 10% tone rollback, etc.). A superswitch should be able to handle that.

Downside would be how easy it would be to accidentally turn off a pickup... hmm.

Or you could use a 6 position rotary switch for the pickup selection (1 N/2 N+M/3 M/4 M+B/5 B/6 N+B) and skip the fiveway altogether (or has the body already been routed for it?).

How often do you think you'll use the middle pickup by itself? Maybe use a push/pull to bring in the middle pickup when in position 6, if you want all 3 pups on?

Bottom line is it's your guitar; you've got to be able to use it and understand what it's doing.

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

My idea was basically to use the three (V/T/T) push/pull pots for the pickup activators, instead of using miniswitches or the fiveway. Then, use the fiveway switch for some really unusual wirings (1 position passes everything straight to the jack for raw tone, 2 position goes through the usual volume and tone, 3 position has 20% volume cut and 10% tone rollback, etc.). A superswitch should be able to handle that.

Downside would be how easy it would be to accidentally turn off a pickup... hmm.

Or you could use a 6 position rotary switch for the pickup selection (1 N/2 N+M/3 M/4 M+B/5 B/6 N+B) and skip the fiveway altogether (or has the body already been routed for it?).

How often do you think you'll use the middle pickup by itself? Maybe use a push/pull to bring in the middle pickup when in position 6, if you want all 3 pups on?

Bottom line is it's your guitar; you've got to be able to use it and understand what it's doing.

Yeah, the body's been ordered and been long enough it's probably too late to sub in new layouts. So the routing is what it is....

I don't think that I would use the hotrails by themselves aside from the #3 position - the way it's planned right this moment is for the middle to be coil split on #2 & 4 of the 5 way (neck and bridge pairing respectively). The full pickup option is position 3 with both pots pulled for the neck and bridge inserts; everything else the neck or bridge pups would be pulled in for accents when they're needed. That's the theory.:friday::friday:

I've played a regular strat and am used to the 5 position switch being pup select so I think I'm sticking with that... While writing this I remembered the germanium overdrive switch that Joe Gore documented building - that's going in the volume pull position (If I can pull it off)....

Thanks for the ideas jtougas - everytime I hear another set of ideas it makes me think through it (which as a noob is handy; ignorance removal tools). Hopefully that diagram isn't causing Artie to yell at me! :friday:

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Okay.

What I would do is this:

Route the neck pup hot to the middle lug on the push/pull switch. Down takes you to the 5way for standard selection. Up takes you directly to the volume pot. Then do the same for the bridge pup hot to the middle lug on whichever push/pull pot you want to run it to.

I think part of what's giving you problems is that you're using the push/pulls as kill switches, shunting things directly to ground to turn them off. Let the 5way do that part naturally.

 

[Artie]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Hopefully that diagram isn't causing Artie to yell at me!

I won't yell. I'll just ignore you.

(Until tomorrow, that is.)

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Okay.

What I would do is this:

Route the neck pup hot to the middle lug on the push/pull switch. Down takes you to the 5way for standard selection. Up takes you directly to the volume pot. Then do the same for the bridge pup hot to the middle lug on whichever push/pull pot you want to run it to.

I think part of what's giving you problems is that you're using the push/pulls as kill switches, shunting things directly to ground to turn them off. Let the 5way do that part naturally.

I was mimicing other diagrams without a clear understanding of why those shunts were there in the first place... So it stands to reason that the P/P doesn't need anything for the down position to function (save the hot connection to the CW lug) and will substitute the middle lug connection on the up pull - is that accurate jt? Really appreciate the coaching and mentoring on this stuff - its interesting but damn it doesn't initially make a bit of sense! :banghead:

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

I won't yell. I'll just ignore you.

(Until tomorrow, that is.)

I've been married 20+ years; I know patience! Plus, righteous indignation at the gift from another (due to delay, whatever) gets you no help at all!

:smokin: Just burn a cigar, listen to some Grateful Dead and be a happy camper when cool people give their time to cure my ignorance.
Nuttin left to do but smile, smile, smile.....

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Besides, he can yell at me if I explain something incorrectly.

I'm a decent hand at wiring, but I am untutored at the finer points of the more technical aspects.

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

jtougas, to that end, a brief question?

A P/P pot is made of a pot and a DPDT switch, aye?
A pot works by wiring inbound stuff to the CW lug (mostly) and serial connection/outbounds to the middle lug. Correct so far? Tone pots can use the CCW lug to connect caps and the like (and vols CCW lugs are generally shunted altogether).

So the only connection needed for the P/P to engage a pickup on the up position is a hot wire in a middle lug position on the DPDT? Just trying to firm up the basics....
Thanks a bunch!

 

[jtougas]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Well, the switch operates independently of the pot, but yeah.

Remember, electricity flows like water - it follows the easiest path.

In this instance, think of the DPDT switch as altering the direction the electricity flows. When it's in the down (default) position, the signal goes where you want it to always go - from the pup hot out to the 5way switch to be chosen when you want it. When the DPDT is in the up (alternate) position, you're diverting the signal to where you want it to go temporarily - in this case, to the volume knob for it to be in parallel with whatever pickup selection you otherwise have going on with the 5way switch.

So, if the 5way switch is on the bridge position, you pull up on the volume knob, which turns on the neck pup, and brings it into the circuit - in parallel with the bridge.

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

Yep, makes sense - omit the switch and you are forced to the top lugs of the DPDT for normal operation. Because there is a common hot from the 5 way already, those are superfluous unless I'm a bigger nutter than I am and add to the config in addition to the 5 way. Eek! Enjoy the rest of your weekend jtougas!

 

[cohibacris]

Re: Wiring help for a crazy build

bump - Artietoo just checking in and trying to set my expectations accordingly on your generous offer to help. Thank you again!