Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

[jmcorey]

I have a Godin Icon with a 5-way super switch. It is an LP clone. 2 humbuckers. I am putting in a WLH set.

If possible, I would like to achieve the following switching combinations:

1 - Bridge humbucker, standard configuration (coils in series)
2 - Bridge humbucker, both coils parallel
3 - Bridge (coils in series) and Neck (coils in parallel)
4 - Screw coil of bridge and slug coil of neck in parallel
5 - Neck humbucker, standard configuration (coils in series)

Need a schematic or diagram for a 5-way super switch.


Thanks,

Joe

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Does it have dual volume and dual tone controls like a LP?

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Does it have dual volume and dual tone controls like a LP?

Sorry, should have put that in the post. One volume, one tone. Both are connected to Godin's proprietary Revoicer circuit, which is on a circuit board in the control cavity. There are hot and ground leads on the circuit board, however.

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I had a look and am pretty certain you can't use a 5WSS to switch two different pickups between series and parallel as well as combine them. In other words, you can't achieve position 3 while also trying to achieve position 2.

You'll need five poles (a 5WSS only has four): three to combine three elements in parallel (bridge pickup and the two coils of the neck pickup) in position 3, one pole to combine the bridge junction for series mode and one pole to combine the neck junction for series mode. I'm assuming that the three poles combining parallel elements will be adequate to do the splitting in position 4.

I'd consider dropping position 2 in favor of the standard parallel combination of both humbuckers. I've run what you want to do in position 3 and liked it. The bridge was a hot ceramic with a LiquiFire in the neck, so I'm not sure how that will do with a WLH set, though they aren't exactly weak pickups, either. Like running the bridge in parallel in position 2, I'm not keen on the position 4 idea, but it isn't a deal-breaker. Installing the neck with the screw coil nearest the bridge and splitting so the slug coil is active or installing it in the tradional way and running it in parallel would work better for me instead, FWIW.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

...or installing it in the traditional way and running it in parallel would work better for me instead, FWIW.

Sorry, do you mean running the neck in parallel instead of 1 coil each pickup?

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I had a look and am pretty certain you can't use a 5WSS to switch two different pickups between series and parallel as well as combine them. In other words, you can't achieve position 3 while also trying to achieve position 2.

You'll need five poles (a 5WSS only has four): three to combine three elements in parallel (bridge pickup and the two coils of the neck pickup) in position 3, one pole to combine the bridge junction for series mode and one pole to combine the neck junction for series mode. I'm assuming that the three poles combining parallel elements will be adequate to do the splitting in position 4.

I'd consider dropping position 2 in favor of the standard parallel combination of both humbuckers. I've run what you want to do in position 3 and liked it. The bridge was a hot ceramic with a LiquiFire in the neck, so I'm not sure how that will do with a WLH set, though they aren't exactly weak pickups, either. Like running the bridge in parallel in position 2, I'm not keen on the position 4 idea, but it isn't a deal-breaker. Installing the neck with the screw coil nearest the bridge and splitting so the slug coil is active or installing it in the tradional way and running it in parallel would work better for me instead, FWIW.

So you would recommend (I am ignoring order here):

Bridge
Neck
Both
Bridge with Neck in Parallel
Neck Parallel

??

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I'd pick whichever I liked better of the two. My gut tells me split to slug nearest the neck would be better despite the hum.

So my proposal would be:
1: bridge in series
2: bridge in series, neck in parallel
3: bridge in series, neck in series
4: neck split (or in parallel)
5: neck in series

I believe these are doable with a 5WSS.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I wired 2 of my guitars previously:

1. Bridge humbucker. Standard configuration.
2. Bridge in Parallel connection.
3. Neck humbucker + Bridge humbucker. Standard middle position.
4. Bridge slug coil + Neck screw coil. Like middle position except with split coils.
5. Neck humbucker. Standard configuration.

With PAF-like humbuckers I add a 510k load resistor for position 3 and 4 only. So it has a lower effective load like a LP for middle position.
Depending on the pickup the parallel position 2 can quack like a strat. All of theses positions are hum-cancelling.

Let me know if you want the diagram. I think I need to redraw it.

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I like the dual humbucker combination a bit brighter than what's in an LP, but concur with putting a load on the dual split combo for lower output buckers, though it will make the extremely weak output even weaker. With an LP that has 500k pots, the additional load is ostensibly 250k (not 500k) since there is a second tone control in addition to the second volume control. I'd probably do 250k on the split combo, but only 500k or no additional load on the full bucker combo.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I'd pick whichever I liked better of the two. My gut tells me split to slug nearest the neck would be better despite the hum.

So my proposal would be:
1: bridge in series
2: bridge in series, neck in parallel
3: bridge in series, neck in series
4: neck split (or in parallel)
5: neck in series

I believe these are doable with a 5WSS.

Why neck in parallel but not bridge in parallel?

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Why neck in parallel but not bridge in parallel?

Oh sorry, I get it now. With bridge in series, neck in parallel, we have a way to get neck in parallel.

How would bridge series + neck parallel (2) sound compared to bridge series + neck series (3)?

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

You could do the bridge in parallel, though the neck parallel, bridge series would have to be changed.

I like the parallel bridge with a hot humbucker in an HSS setup, otherwise I prefer to thin out the neck pickup, especially one that is warm and fat in series mode.

I also like the inner coil thing, but with hot pickups. Some guys like the outer coil thing as another option but I could never get into it. One position inner coils and another position just the outer neck coil is more my speed. People underestimate the potential versatility of an HH setup.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I wired 2 of my guitars previously:

1. Bridge humbucker. Standard configuration.
2. Bridge in Parallel connection.
3. Neck humbucker + Bridge humbucker. Standard middle position.
4. Bridge slug coil + Neck screw coil. Like middle position except with split coils.
5. Neck humbucker. Standard configuration.

With PAF-like humbuckers I add a 510k load resistor for position 3 and 4 only. So it has a lower effective load like a LP for middle position.
Depending on the pickup the parallel position 2 can quack like a strat. All of theses positions are hum-cancelling.

Let me know if you want the diagram. I think I need to redraw it.

Hi Teleplayer,

Yes, I would like to see the diagram, if it's not too much trouble.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I like the dual humbucker combination a bit brighter than what's in an LP, but concur with the load on the dual split combo for lower output buckers, though it will make the extremely weak output even weaker. With an LP, the additional load is ostensibly 250k since there are both a volume control and a tone control, for what it's worth. I'd probably do 250k on the split combo, but 500k or no additional load on the full bucker combo.

With the Godin Revoicer circuit, these are fixed.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

3. Neck humbucker + Bridge humbucker. Standard middle position.
4. Bridge slug coil + Neck screw coil. Like middle position except with split coils.

With PAF-like humbuckers I add a 510k load resistor for position 3 and 4 only. So it has a lower effective load like a LP for middle position.

Because my guitar has only 1 volume and tone, you mean?

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I'll need to look into the Godin circuit, but I suspect you'd still want to load the parallel combination of both humbuckers split, at the very least to prevent the tone from becoming brittle or shrill. You can instead load with an RC as a low-pass shelf. Again, doing this will make a weak combination even weaker, though maybe the Godin Revoicer can help with this option(?).

Two series buckers combined will give you a fuller Les Paul-style middle position sound with extension on the treble. Running one in parallel and one in series will thin and brighten the response further. Keeping the neck in series will be rounder. Keeping the bridge in series will keep it a bit clearer and more present. I prefer having the neck in parallel and bridge in series.

 

[gregory]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

I'd pick whichever I liked better of the two. My gut tells me split to slug nearest the neck would be better despite the hum.

Oh, I forgot to mention you can add a parallel resistor to partially bypass a coil instead of shorting it out completely. That will give you a bit more body. I recommend using a pot to determine the optimal amount of resistance.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Here is the diagram I have used. I'm sorry if the drawing is too rough and looks like a schematic. Please ask if something is not clear.

Another variation I have used (not shown) is to add a push-pull tone pot to split the neck humbucker.
Switch push-down connects the Black wire to lugs for positions 3 and 5 (This is the same as in the diagram).
Switch pull-up connects both Red and White wires to lugs for positions 3 and 5. Then the neck humbucker is coil split (screw pole active) in positions 3, 4, 5. The coil split creates a brighter tone for these positions.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Don't think me a heretic for this, but I don't think you'll find enough difference in a couple of the positions to make it worth while. Therefore my suggestion might seem overly simple at first glance, but I think it will be more practical/offer better tone variety:

1) bridge (coils in series)
2) bridge (coils in parallel)
3) bridge (coils series) + neck (coils series), [bridge + neck pups in parallel]
4) neck (coils in parallel)
5) neck (coils in series)

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Wiring help needed for 2HB guitar with 5-way super switch (calling gregory!)

Don't think me a heretic for this, but I don't think you'll find enough difference in a couple of the positions to make it worth while. Therefore my suggestion might seem overly simple at first glance, but I think it will be more practical/offer better tone variety:

1) bridge (coils in series)
2) bridge (coils in parallel)
3) bridge (coils series) + neck (coils series), [bridge + neck pups in parallel]
4) neck (coils in parallel)
5) neck (coils in series)

Thanks, I was thinking of that myself! It would give me a lot of variety, also.