work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

[JustWendell]

so i recently picked up a mim that will be great once some work gets done on it. when i picked it up from the guy that sold it to me, everything seemed good aside from it desperately needing strings. then once i got home with it and played a bit more as i went to set it down the whole neck shifted on me a bit. so then i checked to see if the screws were tight and 3 were loose so i tightened them(maybe not the best move). now there is some rattling/fret buzz on the higher strings. i have new strings but i did not put them on yet because i want to know if i'm going to have to take the neck of and put it back 'the proper' way. Also there is a little gap from the neck pocket to the neck about the size of a thin pick.

so my question is: do i take this to a tech or get some books and do it myself?

right now i only know how to change strings and i know a little about intonation. I do think though that this is something i would greatly benefit from knowing, even if it's just basic sorta set up stuff. If i go with this route i will need some books and i've seen lots of reccomendations for Dan Erlewine's books-which one(s) would be best to get?

the other option is to take the guitar to a tech. I do know of a great local tech that i took my sg to a year or so ago and the results were nothing less than phenominal(was set up with the zakk wylde lo tune boomers and to me it felt just as easy as the 10's that were on it) the only questionable thing about it was out the door for him to do all the set up stuff and do some filing of the nut/bridge to fit the larger strings it came to $85.

through all of this ranting i think i figured out what option i like best-to get the book(s) that you guys recommend, try it myself, then take it to a tech if it dosn't work out so well. or let me know if my logic is way off and i need to take it to a tech.

thanks for all your help in advance

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

Working on your own gear is very empowering and I think all guitarists should learn to setup their guitar properly. I have made my share of mistakes but after a couple of years of having technicians screw up my guitars it was time to DIY. There are plenty of websites with the information you need.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I agree with idsnowdog, it's good to be able to maintain your own gear and to get ot understand it, however a good technician will always be able to do the job better (the exception being the talented amateurs who generally have more time).

The problem is that there is no accepted standard or qualification for guitar techs and they come in a range of abilities from the 30 year veteran to the inexperienced newbie who fancies making a quick buck. In my area for example there is me, one of my former customers (a nice lad but never done a refret), a guy who regular fits replacement bridges without thinking much about where they should go (I've had to relocate three of his jobs to date) and a guy who smokes so much dope that one of his unfortunate customers (now mine) described taking a guitar to him as the equivalent of a sentence of death on it...

My feeling however is that there is no point complaining that your local deli has gone out of business if you've only ever been there for stuff you can't get at the supermarket so if you have a good guitar tech locally, use him and treat him with respect otherwise he may not be there to save the day when your'e faced with a situation you can't handle. I could probably do a lot of the maintenance work on my bike myself, but my mechanic, Ivor, is much better and quicker than myself and more importantly has got me out of a tight spot more than once (most recently when he swapped the engine in my XJ900). I'm aware that he only did this because I have been to him regularly and loyally for everything from an oil change to a major overhaul, and with my bike being the linch pin of my business (and somethig i entrusrt my life to every day), i can't afford to take any risks with it.

My sympathies go to idsnowdog; a good guitar technician will work with you to get the guitar how you want it rather than just screw it up, hand it back and pocket the cash...

The problem with websites is that for every person who knows what he's talking about there are a dozen parrotting all kinds of myths and urban legends and you need to be able to tell the difference between them.

Frank Ford's www.frets.com is about the best around.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I agree - learning to do your own setup work up to a certain point is agood idea, and a MIM is an appropriate platform on which to start.

The place to start is Dan Erlewine's book How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great. It covers cleaning, stringing, setup, intonation and that's about it - great info that anyone should know. He also has a lot of info about tools - which ones you need, how to make some yourself. There are even some free plastic punch-out string-radius gauges in the back. You're likely to find it locally - I saw a copy at Barnes & Noble just yesterday. Failing that, go to Amazon.

He has a bigger book on guitar repair that covers much of the same material, but branches out to acoustics, finishing, and more serious repairs. I own it as well, but it's really more than I need to know.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

+1 on DIY, Frank Ford's frets.com and Erlewine's How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great

Fender's Mr. GearHead info is really good too. Erlewine's book actually incorporates part of this

Octave Doctor has a point about supporting your local tech. Unfortunately, around here the best tech is so busy that he doesn't really want to do basic setups - fretwork, nut replacement, broken headstocks, etc. interest him more. Now the guy at Guitar Center would be happy to do a setup for me...

Chip

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

The Guitar Handbook - Ralph Denyer - Knopf Publishing - ISBN 0-394-71257-9

 

[cookie2j]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I would get the bigger Erlewine book. It doesn't come with the radius gauges, but he tells you how to make your own. My reason for getting the bigger book is that you'll probably have a lot of fun doing your own work and will want to learn more and probably get the bigger book later anyway!

 

[big_black]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I can't imagine not working on my gear. I won't trust myself with leveling the frets or anything like that, but if I have the tools to do the job I will. Around here techs will charge you $50 to adjust you trussrod, change stings, and intonate....I'll do it myself thanks.

 

[theodie]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

IMO, the only person that can usually setup a guitar to one's liking is yourself unless you are a total dolt at it (Iam am talking about the final touches)! Intonation is the same way becasue intonation is specific to each players touch. Most other aspects of guitar repair can take alot of investment in tools and alot of time to learn to get good at and IMO, it will be more worth your time and money to take it to a good tech unless you plan on doing it yourself on day for a possible living but, these will be few and far between.

 

[Voxman]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I agree with idsnowdog, it's good to be able to maintain your own gear and to get ot understand it, however a good technician will always be able to do the job better (the exception being the talented amateurs who generally have more time).

The problem is that there is no accepted standard or qualification for guitar techs and they come in a range of abilities from the 30 year veteran to the inexperienced newbie who fancies making a quick buck. In my area for example there is me, one of my former customers (a nice lad but never done a refret), a guy who regular fits replacement bridges without thinking much about where they should go (I've had to relocate three of his jobs to date) and a guy who smokes so much dope that one of his unfortunate customers (now mine) described taking a guitar to him as the equivalent of a sentence of death on it...

My feeling however is that there is no point complaining that your local deli has gone out of business if you've only ever been there for stuff you can't get at the supermarket so if you have a good guitar tech locally, use him and treat him with respect otherwise he may not be there to save the day when your'e faced with a situation you can't handle. I could probably do a lot of the maintenance work on my bike myself, but my mechanic, Ivor, is much better and quicker than myself and more importantly has got me out of a tight spot more than once (most recently when he swapped the engine in my XJ900). I'm aware that he only did this because I have been to him regularly and loyally for everything from an oil change to a major overhaul, and with my bike being the linch pin of my business (and somethig i entrusrt my life to every day), i can't afford to take any risks with it.

My sympathies go to idsnowdog; a good guitar technician will work with you to get the guitar how you want it rather than just screw it up, hand it back and pocket the cash...

The problem with websites is that for every person who knows what he's talking about there are a dozen parrotting all kinds of myths and urban legends and you need to be able to tell the difference between them.

Frank Ford's www.frets.com is about the best around.

This is exactly the way i feel about it to!
I do simple things as setting the action and electronics myself,but leaves the more complicated stuff to my tech. I`m lucky to have a really great tech avaleble

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

IMO, the only person that can usually setup a guitar to one's liking is yourself unless you are a total dolt at it (Iam am talking about the final touches)! Intonation is the same way becasue intonation is specific to each players touch. Most other aspects of guitar repair can take alot of investment in tools and alot of time to learn to get good at and IMO, it will be more worth your time and money to take it to a good tech unless you plan on doing it yourself on day for a possible living but, these will be few and far between.

Absolutely, although judging from the comments i've had over the years from my customers I think i can generally get closer to a properly tempered intonation than most players using the 12th fret - harmonic technique.

I've always intonated the same way and by ear and what got me started on my studies of temperament and string dynamics was the number of players that said things like "i don't know what you've done to it, but it just seems to sound more in tune..."

 

[JustWendell]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

thanks all of you for your input. i'm definately taking all of that into consideration(never thought of what would happen if the local tech left town-as far as i know he's not going anywhere but that would truly suck if he did, as i'd proally be forced to take stuff to S.F. or so-would equal a couple of trips most likely-gas is not cheap these days)

so with all of what you guys said, do you think the problems i listed with the mim are something i could tackle somewhat successfully by myself or is it just going to be faster/more of a headache than a noob should deal with to start with? to re-cap the problems were that 1. the neck may need to be taken off and put back the right way 'if there is a right way' as when i first got it, the neck was slightly loose. 2. the action overall just seems bad, definately at its worse on the higher strings, seems like the action is really high untill notes are fretted, then there is lots of fret buzz. 3. the small gap between the body and the neck-this is the one that i'm most concerned about as i think the other 2 should be easily managable, this one i'm unsure of how big of a job this is. if this is something thats going to be a real pain and be an integral part of the other two working out i'd proally rather take it to the tech.

also i'll add that my dad is somewhat of a part time woodworker so he's got a two car garage full of tools, so from what i've seen any tools that are remotely non guitar specific, he's proally got them which means initally i won't have to spend tons of cash to get started with this.

thanks again for all the help--this forum is amazing

 

[theodie]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

Absolutely, although judging from the comments i've had over the years from my customers I think i can generally get closer to a properly tempered intonation than most players using the 12th fret - harmonic technique.

I've always intonated the same way and by ear and what got me started on my studies of temperament and string dynamics was the number of players that said things like "i don't know what you've done to it, but it just seems to sound more in tune..."

:smack::smack::smack::smack:

The 12th fret harmonic:smack::smack::smack:

If they used to proper procedure it would be better IMO.:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

The method I use is similar to the GAL equal temperament tuning protocol.

It is based on the idea that as you progress above the 12th fret the arc relief causes a gradual lessening of the aspect angle between string and fretboard. This means that if you compensate at the 12th fret the higher frets are being overcompensated (as it happens so are the lower frets).

But moving the saddle has more of an effect on the higher frets than the lower ones so by careful tempering it is possible to strike a balance between the high frets and the lower ones. This is of course slightly at the expense of the 12th fret but well within the the human threshold of perception. Because it results in a guitar which has consonance between all notes of the same pitch value at all points on the fingerboard the guitar sounds more in tune.

In effect it's true octave stretching as it should be applied to the guitar rather than the Feiten system which attempts to mimic the piano.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I posted a quick and dirty technique for home set-ups a while back.

I think Pierre and FreshStart both tried it.

Basically it involves putting a capo on the 10th fret or thereabouts and setting the bridge as low as you can before buzz or choking sets in, then moving it to the first fret and tightening the truss rod until the neck is as straight as you can get it without buzz in the lowest quarter of the neck. This isolates the effect of a nut that is cut too high (which can be misleading when you are trying to set a guitar up by feel) and ensures the arc relief and bridge height are set to the optimum adjustment for your style/technique. If the nut is too high you can then address this separately.

I used this technique when I worked for Hohner and i had to set up between twenty and thirty guitars a day...

 

[Bellski777]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

Ugh, Don't talk about guit setups at GC! I let them mess with my guitar once.......bad idea. I took it to my local shop owner and he took one look at how the guy adjusted my truss rod and said "Psshh, let me fix that for you."

 

[Robbiedbee]

Re: work on a mim-to tech or not to tech

I would get the bigger Erlewine book. It doesn't come with the radius gauges, but he tells you how to make your own. My reason for getting the bigger book is that you'll probably have a lot of fun doing your own work and will want to learn more and probably get the bigger book later anyway!

When you say 'bigger book', is this the one you mean?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879302917/qid=1147992661/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/203-0161478-9883156