Worth learning to make nuts?

[alex1fly]

Much of a guitar's setup relies on a properly cut nut. So what does it take - and how many screwups - to become proficient at doing this yourself? Is it worth it for a non-professional?

Insert clever joke about nut jobs here.

 

[Chris Pile]

Took me awhile to get good at it. I still run across stuff I made 40 years ago and it looks like crap compared to the beauts I fabricate these days.

The right tools make all the difference once you've developed some finesse and trained your eyes.

 

[Mincer]

Learning a skill is always a good idea. It helps to either watch a lot of videos, or have someone you trust teach you.

 

[ehdwuld]

If there is a market for the service in your area
you may recoup the cost of the tools

If not
It would be a labor of love

Once yours are done
It's done.

Doing one every 10 yrs isn't going to give you enough practice to get expert "I'd pay 50 bucks just have him file my nuts" good at it

So there's that

 

[Clint 55]

The benefit is you'd be able to make your own nuts out of materials that you can't find pre-made such as brass or wood. It takes practice, but isn't so advanced that's it's really hard to get like tuning a piano or something. All it is is sanding the thing to the correct shape and then getting the slots the correct spacing, depth, and angle. I've made a few out of different materials and the reason I don't do it is that my ocd bugs me about being able to tell that that string spacings don't end up exact like on a pre fabbed nut.

It's absolutely helpful to be skilled at cutting the slots to the right depth to create the action at the nut on your setup for an existing nut or swapping in a pre slotted one, so that's an invaluable thing to practice.

 

[St_Genesius]

Nutting is a very fulfilling pastime.

 

[Chris Pile]

Clint - I've tuned pianos for decades. It's NOT hard at all. If your ear is good, and you have relative pitch - you can tune a piano. Of course - if you are impatient, forget it. As for tools - literally a wrench for the tuning pin, a little felt or rubber wedge for muting strings, and a pitchpipe. You can have it all for $20.

Making a good nut - I've got hundreds of dollars in tools, mostly files of one kind or another, a good disc sander for roughing, and some sandpaper and scotchbrite to make them pretty. Various polishes for the high quality nuts.

Some of my bone nut blanks are decades old (I'm always buying more). I like bone that "tinks" when you drop it.

 

[Clint 55]

Clint - I've tuned pianos for decades. It's NOT hard at all.

I'm happy for you that you're skilled enough to do that, but that's simply not an accurate statement. Tuning pianos is extremely hard. There are like 200 strings and to get them all right down to the cent so the instrument sounds mint to play requires enormous dedication and skill. Think of how many people will be able to tune their guitar by ear and then have every string be 100% correct when checked with a tuner, then magnify that job by 100. Adjusting your set up is not hard at all. Tuning pianos is somewhere between quite challenging but plenty do-able for a seasoned pro to impossible.

 

[Artie]

Some of my bone nut blanks are decades old (I'm always buying more). I like bone that "tinks" when you drop it.

I like bone too. But I'm biased because that's what my luthier friend likes. But . . . it works for me.

 

[NegativeEase]

I don't think cutting a good nut is very hard -but it does take making many to finally get the great one and learn enough from your mistakes to be consistent.

A good luthier can make one in 30 minutes thats perfect. -whereas an amateur like me will spend 2-3 hours on one for a similar result.

Also, since you won't be cutting them often like a luthier -you won't exactly be dialed in every time like a pro either.

​​​​​​So what is your time, money, personal satisfaction and having a new skill worth to you?


If you do -start by making a replica of your old nut and then one from scratch with reference or vice versa.

 

[Chris Pile]

I'm happy for you that you're skilled enough to do that, but that's simply not an accurate statement. Tuning pianos is extremely hard. There are like 200 strings and to get them all right down to the cent so the instrument sounds mint to play requires enormous dedication and skill.

Now I'm going to make a fool out of you. Piano tuners DO NOT use machines or tuners to set the tuning. I was trained by a guy in town who was regarded as the best in Kansas for 50 years. Every piano store in town and the surrounding area used DUKE. He taught me that the piano HAD to be tuned by ear, because the human ear doesn't like pianos tuned to perfect pitches of electronic tuners. The super trebles and sub basses need to be pitched RELATIVE (not exactly) to all other strings. You start at middle C and work out towards the last keys. Some strings sound better sharp, and some sound better flat to a human ear. It takes awhile to learn, and awhile to do the actual tuning. If it's been a long time since the piano was tuned - it will take a longer time to do. You'd have to do it 2 or 3 times to get right because of the immense tension on the soundboard. It's got to adjust.

I'll say it again - pianos tuned to exact pitches do NOT sound right to the human ear. Duke taught me to "tune it to the beating of the strings". That's relative tuning.

 

[Mincer]

I have to say that every piano tuner I have met did it by ear, with no help other than some tools to do the actual turning of the pegs.

 

[Artie]

I'll say it again - pianos tuned to exact pitches do NOT sound right to the human ear. Duke taught me to "tune it to the beating of the strings". That's relative tuning.

That's what I've heard too. I know that the guy who tuned my parents piano, years ago, only brought a little T-handle square drive, (to fit the string posts), and his ears. Did a great job.

 

[NegativeEase]

Now I'm going to make a fool out of you. Piano tuners DO NOT use machines or tuners to set the tuning. I was trained by a guy in town who was regarded as the best in Kansas for 50 years. Every piano store in town and the surrounding area used DUKE. He taught me that the piano HAD to be tuned by ear, because the human ear doesn't like pianos tuned to perfect pitches of electronic tuners. The super trebles and sub basses need to be pitched RELATIVE (not exactly) to all other strings. You start at middle C and work out towards the last keys. Some strings sound better sharp, and some sound better flat to a human ear. It takes awhile to learn, and awhile to do the actual tuning. If it's been a long time since the piano was tuned - it will take a longer time to do. You'd have to do it 2 or 3 times to get right because of the immense tension on the soundboard. It's got to adjust.

I'll say it again - pianos tuned to exact pitches do NOT sound right to the human ear. Duke taught me to "tune it to the beating of the strings". That's relative tuning.

Yeah, i have really really sensitive ear to pitch and couldn't get it right doing a piano by myself -I tried to make it perfectly relative and it sounded un"full" and lifeless because I wasn't compensating with flattening and sharpening certain notes as you mentioned -natural 3rds are usually trouble strings in any key.

although I only tried once enough to know it was worth paying someone and got worried with a soundboard 140 years old. I have a guy whose been doing it 50 years that comes and does mine every year and yeah all by ear.

Last year I had it re-felted and the action redone. 1882 Steinway plays like a dream right now.

 

[GreatOz]

For piano tuning, compared to "perfect" equal temperament tuning, aren't the bass and treble string typically tuned slightly flat and sharp respectively to compensate/compromise for the nasty overtones when tuned to "normal" equal temperament? The whole point of equal tempered tuning is that it's literally mathematically impossible to have simple ratios (5/4, 3/2, etc) at all octaves in all keys, so the compromise was to have everything be slightly "out of tune" when compared to simple ratios. The only perfect intervals in equal temperament are the octaves (2/1).

 

[ErikH]

Reminds me. Our piano needs tuning. Every guy I’ve seen work on one has done so by ear and worked from middle C out. They’d make sure middle C was pitch then take the rest from there.

On the subject of making nuts, yes it is worth it. I bought slot files, slot saw and a spacing ruler to help with it. Time and patience. I made the nut that’s on my SG Jr and I felt it was fine for a while and then realized the slots were high so I compared to one of my other guitars and adjusted the SG Jr accordingly. Plays like a dream. Still need to work on my overall shaping but it’s better than it was.

 

[Chris Pile]

Exactly, Erik. If the strings are too high in the nut - not only will it be difficult to play, but it won't play in tune if the action is high at the nut. You are literally sharping the string at both ends. So lowest possible action at the nut for tuning stability, and then set action at the bridge for your comfort level when playing.

And I should mention - an ugly nut will still work. Mine from the early days worked well.... but they looked like shit compared to what I do with them now.

My biggest teaching experiences were working on the guitars of really top notch players. They have the sensitivity and experience to know what works for them - and I didn't get defensive or scared - I actively tried to remain open to learning. I'm so grateful for the patience of my clients in the early years. Even 40 plus years later - they are still with me, and I am among their biggest fans. They provided me a good living, while they went out and fed their families.

 

[Bogner]

If you can get a pre made nut that truly works for your guitar then I would go that route if you want to not invest in the right tools and take the time to learn. It doesn't happen over night. That being said, it is virtually impossible for a pre fab nut to not need some work to be right. They make some wonderful tools and jigs, etc to aid you in making nuts and they are well worth the money in my experience. Work slow, and with the right tools and good things can happen. It may take blowing through a few blanks to get it right but definitely not impossible. A proper nut does solve a lot of problems and does make a guitar play wonderfully.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

I’ve made a few bone nuts, then I discovered GraphTec Tusq blanks. If there’s a GraphTec available, I’ll always use that instead.

 

[Mincer]

The thing I hate about working with bone is the smell. Ick.
I've done it with TUSQ, but it has been awhile since I needed to make anything from scratch. The next project ill have an LSR.