Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

[Wormhelmet]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

How wrong you are! Owned one for over a year trying (tubes, biasing, different speakers, etc.) to get a good sound out of both channels. Never happened. And that was after the first one was replaced on warranty.

Which one did you own that you could never get to sound good? You made an analogy of lipstick on a pig, but there are a few Bugera owners around here happy with theirs. Just wondering which one you picked that nothing could be done for and how long ago was it you bought it?

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Which one did you own that you could never get to sound good? You made an analogy of lipstick on a pig, but there are a few Bugera owners around here happy with theirs. Just wondering which one you picked that nothing could be done for and how long ago was it you bought it?

It was a V22 and was probably a year prior to the post which was 2012....so I'm guessing 2011?? It was early in the release of the V22 whenever that was.

 

[Wormhelmet]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

It was a V22 and was probably a year prior to the post which was 2012....so I'm guessing 2011?? It was early in the release of the V22 whenever that was.

They must have made some improvements on it. Musicians Friend had 116 reviews of it with 97% would recommend it while Amazon had 39 reviews of it with 81% giving 5 stars, 17% giving 4 stars, and all of 2% gave a one star review.

Looking around at similar reviews from other sources reveals the same trend.

That's one Radiant Pig

That'll do pig, that'll do....

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

And mine was the worst amp I've ever owned. No question.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Sorry to hear that..but honestly there've been enough threads on here about similar experiences with other amps..including many which are considered 'high end'. Likewise, there are happy Bugera owners with zero issues (myself included) here as well, who love the way their amps sound.

They've actually worked on teething problems/quality issues over the last couple of years...and the infamous (and highly overblown/overstated by haters..and I suspect..competition) 'melting plastic transformer clip/connector" issue has long been sorted out..

If you like your Bugera, awesome. One luxury you have over people with very nice gear is that the amps are pretty disposable/replaceable. One craps out on you? No problem, grab one of your spares, and replace the broken one for $200. Those entire amps are even cheaper than completely re tubing other amps.

Buuuuuuuuut that's still not much of a good rep for quality. Some amps I consider to be of higher quality shouldn't even break unless you do something stupid to them, like running the amp without a speaker load, bias the tubes to the point of red plating, or just don't generally properly maintain the amp over the years. So they shouldn't need replacing.

Melting transformer connectors isn't really as minor of a problem as you're making it either. There's a bigger problem than just melting connectors - it's that they even used connectors at all in the first place IMO. To me, that's like fixing a plumbing leak with duct tape. The problem isn't that the duct tape failed, it's that there shouldn't have been duct tape in the first place. They had to have just completely overlooked how bad of an idea that was. I also think it's pretty hard to overblow/overstate an easily avoidable fire hazard, like those clip connectors. I know I've been turned off from the brand for that reason, just like how I'd be turned off from a plumber who fixes leaking pipes with duct tape. At least the amps are relatively cheap to replace.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

If you like your Bugera, awesome. One luxury you have over people with very nice gear is that the amps are pretty disposable/replaceable. One craps out on you? No problem, grab one of your spares, and replace the broken one for $200. Those entire amps are even cheaper than completely re tubing other amps.

Yeah...that's lovely ..and then it sounds like this too..



...what a deal!

Buuuuuuuuut that's still not much of a good rep for quality

(and highly overblown/overstated by haters..and I suspect..competition)

^^ It's called playing dirty..

Some amps I consider to be of higher quality shouldn't even break unless you do something stupid to them, like running the amp without a speaker load, bias the tubes to the point of red plating, or just don't generally properly maintain the amp over the years. So they shouldn't need replacing.

I've played mine without a speaker load..(cab was connected to my Randall) yeah..stupid..but it's happened more than once. Guess it was high enough quality not to go kaput

Melting transformer connectors isn't really as minor of a problem as you're making it either. There's a bigger problem than just melting connectors - it's that they even used connectors at all in the first place IMO. To me, that's like fixing a plumbing leak with duct tape. The problem isn't that the duct tape failed, it's that there shouldn't have been duct tape in the first place.

It was a design flaw ..not a problem fix. (There's a difference there) ...ie there was no 'problem' to fix & the 'problem' only arose because of it (the clip). They probably thought going modular would make it easier to replace should anything go wrong (for some of the reasons you outlined above ..no load/red-plating tubes etc..). Bad idea. But then other companies have had those too....

They had to have just completely overlooked how bad of an idea that was.

They fixed it...it's hardwired now..

I also think it's pretty hard to overblow/overstate an easily avoidable fire hazard, like those clip connectors. I know I've been turned off from the brand for that reason, just like how I'd be turned off from a plumber who fixes leaking pipes with duct tape. At least the amps are relatively cheap to replace.

Yeah..there was a pretty sustained effort in the US to play that up with all the identical fake 'reviews' and "I had one, sounded amazeballs for 5 minutes ..then it died" posts on forums/youtube everywhere...almost like a well sponsored corporate campaign funnily enough. Bugera still sells more tube amps in Europe than any other brand. Apparently they tend to blow up less often with 220 volts.. :laugh2:

 

[Wormhelmet]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

I didn't know this was a bag on Bugera thread. I thought the topic was Mercury Magnetics Transformers....

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Bagging on Bugera is a popular pastime ....we've had threads go this way before haha. In this case you got folk who have nothing to do with either (Bugera or MM) doing their bit. Luckily it's easy enough to call BS..like I said up there.

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

People bag on peavey too but i think my jsx is way better than any bugera. hehehe

Mine has stock transformers. You know the small ones bro? :laugh2:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

..lol, too bad about those 'lil trannies bro

..but hey at least it does'nt blow up

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

..lol, too bad about those 'lil trannies bro

..but hey at least it does'nt blow up

You're a little trannie

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Bugera still sells more tube amps in Europe than any other brand. Apparently they tend to blow up less often with 220 volts.. :laugh2:

Doesnt really mean much though, they sell more Fiat 500's than they do Mercedes AMG's does that mean that Fiat 500's are higher quality than Mercedes?

Though do you care to cite numbers for your bugera sales figures? My informal observation is that at least here in Italy bugeras are not so popular.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

You're a little trannie

..says the guy who admits he has little trannies..

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Doesnt really mean much though, they sell more Fiat 500's than they do Mercedes AMG's does that mean that Fiat 500's are higher quality than Mercedes?

No one said Bugera's were the highest quality. I said their quality is fine and not lacking in any way. Tone is subjective & I think my amp sounds awesome. Is it the best tone ever? No..but only because there is no "best tone ever".

Fiat 500's don't blow up constantly either... or they would'nt sell any.

Though do you care to cite numbers for your bugera sales figures? My informal observation is that at least here in Italy bugeras are not so popular.

I guess you could follow the link in there....I've seen it mentioned in a lot of other BB (bugera bashing) threads on other forums too..

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

Yeah...that's lovely ..and then it sounds like this too..



...what a deal!





^^ It's called playing dirty..



I've played mine without a speaker load..(cab was connected to my Randall) yeah..stupid..but it's happened more than once. Guess it was high enough quality not to go kaput



It was a design flaw ..not a problem fix. (There's a difference there) ...ie there was no 'problem' to fix & the 'problem' only arose because of it (the clip). They probably thought going modular would make it easier to replace should anything go wrong (for some of the reasons you outlined above ..no load/red-plating tubes etc..). Bad idea. But then other companies have had those too....



They fixed it...it's hardwired now..



Yeah..there was a pretty sustained effort in the US to play that up with all the identical fake 'reviews' and "I had one, sounded amazeballs for 5 minutes ..then it died" posts on forums/youtube everywhere...almost like a well sponsored corporate campaign funnily enough. Bugera still sells more tube amps in Europe than any other brand. Apparently they tend to blow up less often with 220 volts.. :laugh2:

I'd say you're lucky your transformer (and tubes) survived, but there's probably permanent wear on it because of it.

I don't think I said the clips were trying to fix anything, I made the comparison to "duct tape plumbing" because yes, while one is a design flaw and another is a repair flaw, they're both flaws were the manufacturer/worker should have known better, but was negligent in their decision making. They hastily made solutions to problems, whether the problem was "how to connect wires" or "stop a leak", and their solutions were laughable. That's my point. At least they learned and don't use the clips anymore. If the original intention was to make replacing a transformer easy, that doesn't make much sense, because replacing the transformer would probably cost more than the amp is worth, especially if there was arching when the transformer crapped out and blew all the tubes, which would add to the repair cost. At least the amps are cheap to replace/have a backup.

I also don't think those "it was great...for 5 min" reviews were sabotage, but just hyperbolic. Yes, they're exaggerated, but jokingly trying to bring to light an issue of reliability with Bugera amps. Nothing out of the ordinary to me.

But hey, if you like it, and it serves you well, awesome. They're like a nice disposable camera of the amp world to me. They're cheap, get the job done, and can be replaced.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

No one said Bugera's were the highest quality. I said their quality is fine and not lacking in any way. Tone is subjective & I think my amp sounds awesome. Is it the best tone ever? No..but only because there is no "best tone ever".

Fiat 500's don't blow up constantly either... or they would'nt sell any.

You do realize that this thread took this direction cause you? You made a baseless reply to a 3 year old post no less. You made the patently false claim that since the bugeras trannies were bigger they were better.

Then you hinted that since they were cheap the trannies were "high end iron" that is a direct quote of what you said by the way.

Then you made the other false claim that materials are cheap in china. This is completely false. China has to import copper and metal the same as everyone else. (which is actually one of the big reasons why the chinese choose to manufacture with lesser quality materials) In fact since its imported they pay more the only cost saving they have is labor and not all labor in china is subsidized. Only in the markets where they are dumping.

Its interesting that you keep asserting that you can see the quality. In the photos you got hot and bothered about the peaveys transformer cases are actually much better stampings. Look at the thickness of the material look at the precision of the dies. You can see that the bugera trannies use thinner metal and the dies are less precise but then again you certaintly cannot judge quality on sight alone. Especially since whats import is whats inside the part you cant see so not sure why you are so convinced that it can be judged visually.

Having lived in China for 3 years and my wife having work as a liaison between companies in italy and manufacturers in china ive seen first hand how the system operates and what their idea of "quality" is. Hell one factory even asked us "do you want it to say "Made in USA" or "Made in Italy" to us.

Walk into a guitar store in the Guo Luo district in Beijing and look at what the people in China are buying... Ill give you a hint as to what its not, its not their homegrown stuff.

Just cause something is popular doesnt make it good. McDonalds is popular... it sure isnt good.

Bugeras use adequate transformers. Ive never said they werent. It was you that interjected pictures into this thread to show us their superiority then you give faulty arguments... what do you expect?

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

You do realize that this thread took this direction cause you? You made a baseless reply to a 3 year old post no less. You made the patently false claim that since the bugeras trannies were bigger they were better.

The thread was already ressurected ..and not by me. My reply was to a 3 year old post (I did'nt check the date..big deal) but it was far from baseless. The assumption that bigger Iron is better is common in the guitar world as everyone knows..and it's often spot on. I compared similar high gain amps with almost identical specs ...so the size of the trannies probably does matter ..all other aspects being so close. Also Bugera claims that it improved on the JSX design and one of the ways it did that was to beef up the tranny's..

Then you hinted that since they were cheap the trannies were "high end iron" that is a direct quote of what you said by the way.

They are...high as most other tranny's out there that come 'stock' in high gain amps..and certainly not in need of 'upgrading' (which is how the topics relevant to this thread..since it's about upgrading trannies)

Then you made the other false claim that materials are cheap in china. This is completely false. China has to import copper and metal the same as everyone else. (which is actually one of the big reasons why the chinese choose to manufacture with lesser quality materials) In fact since its imported they pay more the only cost saving they have is labor and not all labor in china is subsidized. Only in the markets where they are dumping.

They import dirt cheap & most often often illegally mined stuff from countries like India (where I'm from) where illegal mining & exporting is super popular with politicians & their "businessmen" cronies. I know a bit about this ..it's in the news everyday. Believe me, it's no strain on their finances...probably cheaper than mining it themselves...

Its interesting that you keep asserting that you can see the quality. In the photos you got hot and bothered about the peaveys transformer cases are actually much better stampings. Look at the thickness of the material look at the precision of the dies. You can see that the bugera trannies use thinner metal and the dies are less precise but then again you certaintly cannot judge quality on sight alone. Especially since whats import is whats inside the part you cant see so not sure why you are so convinced that it can be judged visually.

I said they look fine to me ... and more importantly, they have'nt crapped out & the amp (with them in it) sounds fantastic. So Yeah..that's one thing that I mentioned..but I also mentioned two other things..which are the "proof of the pudding" so to speak. As you know this thread is about a guy wanting to upgrade his Mesa's tranny's because he thinks they're lacking. Also if this thread was about someone's 'high end' amp with pics of it's 'massive' trannies everyone would be hoo'ing & haa'ing...we both know that.

Having lived in China for 3 years and my wife having work as a liaison between companies in italy and manufacturers in china ive seen first hand how the system operates and what their idea of "quality" is. Hell one factory even asked us "do you want it to say "Made in USA" or "Made in Italy" to us.

That's more "ethics" not quality. The fact that they even asked means there are good folk from Italy and the US who are 'gung-ho' themselves about mislabelling their products so they can be sold at ten times the price. You and I just don't know who they are..

Walk into a guitar store in the Guo Luo district in Beijing and look at what the people in China are buying... Ill give you a hint as to what its not, its not their homegrown stuff.

"Foreign" (especially Western) is considered "better" ..it's a third world thing & has more to do with self-imagined 'prestige' than quality..

Just cause something is popular doesnt make it good. McDonalds is popular... it sure isnt good.

..and conversely....just because something's cheap does'nt make it a pig. My amp sounds awesome & works flawlessly. Unless I'm really missing something...bottom line: There's nothing to complain about.

Bugeras use adequate transformers. Ive never said they werent. It was you that interjected pictures into this thread to show us their superiority then you give faulty arguments... what do you expect?[/QUOTE]

They were'nt faulty (see above)

 

[kramersteen]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

I think its clear here that my jsx is the better amp. :biglaugh:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

I'd say you're lucky your transformer (and tubes) survived, but there's probably permanent wear on it because of it.

It was just a few seconds on both occasions it happened..there's no change in sound or performance..I think it's fine.

I don't think I said the clips were trying to fix anything, I made the comparison to "duct tape plumbing" because yes, while one is a design flaw and another is a repair flaw, they're both flaws were the manufacturer/worker should have known better, but was negligent in their decision making. They hastily made solutions to problems, whether the problem was "how to connect wires" or "stop a leak", and their solutions were laughable. That's my point. At least they learned and don't use the clips anymore. If the original intention was to make replacing a transformer easy, that doesn't make much sense, because replacing the transformer would probably cost more than the amp is worth, especially if there was arching when the transformer crapped out and blew all the tubes, which would add to the repair cost.

I'm sure it was cheaper just to solder the wires together than to use clips ..so cost cutting is very unlikely to be a factor. Once again they did'nt repair anything...it's was an aspect of the design. What exactly their thinking was behind it ..who knows? When They did realize it was a problem they repaired it by hardwiring the tranny wires & getting rid of the clips ..how is that a "hastily made/laughable solution" lol??

I also don't think those "it was great...for 5 min" reviews were sabotage, but just hyperbolic. Yes, they're exaggerated, but jokingly trying to bring to light an issue of reliability with Bugera amps. Nothing out of the ordinary to me.

My views on that are different..

But hey, if you like it, and it serves you well, awesome. They're like a nice disposable camera of the amp world to me. They're cheap, get the job done, and can be replaced.

Condescending haha....but water off a ducks back

Btw, play one sometime ..I think you'll like it.

 

[Sleepy]

Re: Worth upgrading your output and power transformers to Mercury Magnetics?

The V22 is an awesome amp for dity cleans/mild overdrive. If they sold it for 6k a bunch of geezers on the gear page would be trading them and raving about the lathered fruity creamy transient nuances.

You don't wanna stand for disposable products or whatever... Well the logo comes off pretty easily