Would there be demand for...

[Pierre]

Well we all know that digital and solid state technology emulates the sound of a preamp tube VERY well. However people always feel the need for power tubes.

How about a working man's digital amp that would work kinda like a simpler POD? A preamp section having the usual Twin, Bassman, AC30, Plexi, JCM800, Dual Rect etc... amp models with a footswitch, all digital, and a power section of say 50W with a built in switch for 5/25/50 for instance?
I'd be the first to jump on something like this myself. Think of all the extra possibilities. And with digital modelling getting cheaper now... Now I'm a student in marketing so I know that if there was a market, it'd exist, so if anyone can think of a reason why it wouldn't work, hit me.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

with a tube power section?


IMO, that is the next step. modeler preamp, like vox with a preamp tube and a pure tube power section.. in the line of 15/30w

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Yeah. People already do it, and the atomic seems to sell decently. I don't get why they don't go to the next step. The Spider is a pretty meh amp if you ask me, and the Flextone is cool but it'd just be so much better if you could even have less options but a power amp. I wouldn't need any effects myself, just the darn amp models and an effects loop. It'd keep the costs down and from what I gather here it'd be fairly popular.

 

[Truant]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I'd have to agree, it most definately seems like the logical next step.

And yeah, assuming it didn't just suck eggs, I'd probably sell my SS box and snatch one up in a heartbeat.

 

[joelap]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I've seen ads in the back of guitar magazines of these people who sell cabinets (not sure of the dimensions, I think 2x12 and 4x12) with a built in 100 or 50 watt tube poweramp, but theres an area where you slide in a POD, and the POD becomes the preamp. Not sure why it hasn;t caught on... maybe poor advertising? Usually I view those black and white ads at the back of the book to be either shady or cheap most of the time. If you can market it better, then hell go for it dude. Even if you only sell a few items, it's still good experience and whatnot.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Yeah. People already do it, and the atomic seems to sell decently. I don't get why they don't go to the next step. The Spider is a pretty meh amp if you ask me, and the Flextone is cool but it'd just be so much better if you could even have less options but a power amp. I wouldn't need any effects myself, just the darn amp models and an effects loop. It'd keep the costs down and from what I gather here it'd be fairly popular.

Well basically the Atomic is exactly what you are talking about. Your modeller is the pre-amp, and the Atomic powers it.

I've run two diff modelers of my own through it (Pod XTL, Vox Tonelab SE), and a v-amp of a friends when I first got it. POD sounds far and away the best through it. Tonelab doesn't even sound like a real amp ...in the least..no matter what ya do or how ya tweak it. It's got a bit more tube feel under the fingers, but it's not nearly as 3D/real amp-like. It's very small/thin/fake sounding even run through the power amp on my Rivera. V-amp I won't even mention :grumble:

Unless some new tech is developed, I'm not sure I see the point tho. Still won't feel/play/sound like a real amp. There is a "disconnect" there with the digital technology. It's like your sound is created in this little teeny chip, and then just amplified...as opposed to the "signal" chain of a real pre-power amp and then speaker interaction. As I mentioned in the other thread...it sounds like a recording of the amp.

I'd LOVE to have something though would bring that "real amp" feel to them, and allow for some dynamics under medium to higher gain. No doubt the POD XTL does an admirable job of emulating tones.

Another issue with the Atomic is it's very easy to overdrive the EL84s if you do not set up the levels of the models carefully or just crank it...and this will lead to HORRID tone, not only from the tubes distorting but it also causes more digital glitching/ghost tones. I think something like a 6l6 or 6550 version..something with some headroom... would be better.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

For 400 pounds you could get a decent tube amp with an effects loop and get the exact same effect. The atomic is pretty big especially for an 18W and expensive. What I'm talking about is a proper combo with digital preamp with different models and a poweramp with switchable output to control how soon you overdrive the tubes. Seeing as technology is like now, it should easily be doable and think of all the practicability gained from it.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Would there be demand for...

For 400 pounds you could get a decent tube amp with an effects loop and get the exact same effect. The atomic is pretty big especially for an 18W and expensive. What I'm talking about is a proper combo with digital preamp with different models and a poweramp with switchable output to control how soon you overdrive the tubes. Seeing as technology is like now, it should easily be doable and think of all the practicability gained from it.

Well here the Atomic is not terribly expensive. Not much more than a Fender Blues Jr. As for Size. Eh. Not too bad. Not terribly heavy. Most of that size is just extra space for the modeller to plug into. It's bigger than my Rivera was, but I don't think it's any heavier.

Based on how the "preamp" and power amp interact on the Atomic, I'm not sure using that signal to overdrive the power tubes would be a good thing. Some kind of new tech would need to be involved. I think one of the key things in tube amps is how all 3 sections work together (pre-power-speakers). They would have to find a way to emulate the characteristics of each individually and how they interact/affect each other.....and that's been the problem from the get-go. They've been trying to do it for 40 years now. And as good as some modellers are, there still is nothing remotely close to sound and feel of a real cranked tube amp (and then if the Digital version works on the same principle, what would the benefit be other than cost? Why not just buy a tube amp and crank it?)

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

totaly... for example.. the 'new' laney line of LC and VC amps (15 and 30w) is below, or in the same price range as the spider 2/flextone amps/pod XT. yea, sure, you dont have as many presets and tones to be had out of the amp, but you got a REAL breathing, working tube amp

and i'm still waiting for mine damnit!!! i think i'll have to order abroad =/

 

[JeffB]

Re: Would there be demand for...

totaly... for example.. the 'new' laney line of LC and VC amps (15 and 30w) is below, or in the same price range as the spider 2/flextone amps/pod XT. yea, sure, you dont have as many presets and tones to be had out of the amp, but you got a REAL breathing, working tube amp

and i'm still waiting for mine damnit!!! i think i'll have to order abroad =/

I suspect that pricing is the way it is cos Line 6 is imported, and Laney is a eurpean brand and vice versa for here.

Here the low end all tube laneys are 2.5 times as much as a POD XT.

The issue (and unfortunately I know this all too well) with tube amps is volume. If one can afford a gig amp and something else at home that sound decent for practice thats great. But if you need one amp to do both..frankly tube amps suck unless your style dictates clean sounds for the most part. There is nothing worse than fizzy pre-amp tube distortion (only).

If this type of tech Pierre is talking about could get the cranked tube tone AND dynamics, I'd be all over it! :bigthumb:

 

[Marcel]

Re: Would there be demand for...

totaly... for example.. the 'new' laney line of LC and VC amps (15 and 30w) is below, or in the same price range as the spider 2/flextone amps/pod XT. yea, sure, you dont have as many presets and tones to be had out of the amp, but you got a REAL breathing, working tube amp

and i'm still waiting for mine damnit!!! i think i'll have to order abroad =/

http://www.musicstore-koeln.de/de/global/0_0_G_0_GIT0006324-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
maybe?
*edit* this is much cheaper...
http://www.music-town.de/cgi-bin/mt...nk&artnr=07.102.00557&order=&wkid=22398118701
hm for this price I am thinking of get one

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

well, then the world needs a 5 watt tube modeller

or 8-10W the most.

http://www.musicstore-koeln.de/de/global/0_0_G_0_GIT0006324-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
maybe?

something like that yea. have to calculate shipping and see how much it is .. and possibly i wont have to pay VAT.. which is 50euro less.. but that will prolly be the shipping fee, if they will send it over


the 2nd one you posted is not the reverb version.. it has less features (no effects loop etc etc)

 

[Marcel]

Re: Would there be demand for...

My bandmate baught his Amp there and had good experience... He even had to pay less than the price which was shown in the web shop and the amp arrived the next day ... maybe 14 hours later ... but the other dealer is much cheaper... I just froogled .. maybe you wann froogle in your country

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

froogle?

the reason the 2nd amp is cheaper is cos its not the reverb version

and i am positive they dont have this amp in the country. i got the guy to call every single store around the country and even got to the distributer, who doesnt have it.. and since they only order in bulk, they wont order just one amp =/

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Would there be demand for...

How about a working man's digital amp that would work kinda like a simpler POD?

No offense.....but if you can't figure out how to use a POD then you probably shouldn't be driving.

ANY peice of gear is daunting the first time you get in front of it. We all lock up the first time we look at an amp with a knob labeled something we have no idea what it does. But if you take the time neccesary to figure it out then it's nowhere near as befuddling.

A dumbed-down version of a POD or whatever would likely lack the important features that make the units themselves useful. A "standard" sound can be different sounding with every players guitar, feel, tone, etc. Trying to come up with a "best of" for that would likely yield something that sounds terrible for eveyone involved.

The learning curve isn't diffiult...and with the ability to edit patches on a computer you get a GUI for the whole damned unit in one view. That's why the goofy little things are so beloved by those that know how to use them...it's because they've put in a little time and get great sounds out of them.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I CAN figure it out, but by simpler I mean with less options. To make the package cheaper

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Would there be demand for...

I CAN figure it out, but by simpler I mean with less options. To make the package cheaper

Rather than go cheap you could go with the past versions that have been discontinued.

Know how many shops are using Flextone I's as doorstops?

I think a company like Line 6 is going to be MUCH less prone to make a cheap unit with limited possibilities when by just making the unit, the hardware is there to go bigger. Hell, they're even making add-on packs for the XT's to further increase the options on the units.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

Well I DO have a POD 2.0. And you seem to not have gotten my point at all dude sorry. Read my first post again for the lowdown.

 

[Davey]

Re: Would there be demand for...

well.. once it's together, it has the same knobs and everything.. what you put in there doesnt matter.. tis just software.. it can have one amp or 40

its all the same

but it would be good to make the software upgradeable with more models, like the XT pods.
just to have tubes in there so it doesnt sound so digital..

and make the modeler WORK with the tubes so you get a tube breakup. and once that is achieved, the modelers are going to rule even more. you'll have both the tone and feel of multiple amps

 

[Pierre]

Re: Would there be demand for...

True, but I do assume it'd be cheaper to the consumer to have a version with 10 than a version with 40. Or else Line 6's marketing departement has problems